svpmx83

Jerry,

Just a thought that may help with your decision making, as most audio head units now have some form of digital clock (especially double DIN) - is a separate clock necessary on the flush mount version?

Jerry Feather

Thanks, Steve. That actually does help a lot. I have had that thought in the back of my mind about why will we need the clock if the Navigation unit has one, but my brain was ignoring it. I have been so focused on being able to move most of the original components around and still use them that I didn't consider eliminating the clock too. That consideration does help a bunch.

I did find another Infiniti Clock that I like and it is also eliptical and a little larger that the one I showed earlier. It is about an inch and 3/4 tall while the other one is an inch and 1/2 tall. The width is not a concern. I think I will develop the original trim piece to utilize this larger clock.

What will turn out to be the choices on the flush mount project are as follows:

1. For cars with automatic, either no clock or the little Infiniti clock which will have to be customized to fit. (Cut off the end like I showed I was doing with one earlier.)

2. For five speed cars (assuming there is much more space in front of the shifter than with the auto), also no clock, or any one of the three clocks--the original, the small or larger Infiniti clocks.

The main choice that is not going to be available is to use the original clock in the conversion for the automatic cars. That choice is what I was hoping to retain.

I think I will develop the alternate trim piece just the way I was going, but with both a wider and a narrower clock panel at the upper end that can be changed out for different forming. I also think I have a way to try to keep the auto trim piece from looking like the shifter opening is so large.

Thanks again, Steve. It is this kind of input that really helps out with my design processes.

Jerry Feather

Koenig-Specials 928

Or leave it blank for people like me who will punch 2 or 3 holes and install additional gauges.

Jerry Feather

Thanks Hessank. That would be the "no clock" option as stated for either auto's or 5 speeds. Also, implied is with or without rear AC controls. Without either would be a blank space; and that will require some special tooling for forming, which I will explain much later. The main limitation in the blank space will be the one for autos since that panel is going to be only about an inch and 3/4 wide, top to bottom. That may be too little space for instruments unless some small ones can be found.

As an aside, I have looked at the threads that Kieth Widom posted a couple years ago. Based on that one might suggest that I am trying to reinvent the " Widom Wheel" here. However, I am simply starting with what Kieth ended up with as what appears to me, and I think others, to be the ideal configuration; so I am simply going with his wheel in this endeavor. The minor changes we are talking about with the clock panel is an issue that he didn't have to deal with, or not much, since he was working with a 5 speed.

Jerry

JPTL

Jerry, re: the integral clock, I regard the analog clock integrated into the console trim as an essential part of the aesthetics of my GTs interior. The digital clock in my head unit is not. IMO, your thoughts of integrating an analog clock is worthwhile and should certainly be kept as an option, since I'm guessing that many of those considering a re-design console trim would want an analog clock. most of the upscale/luxury/exotics now have analog clocks. That Infinity clock is really clean and classic looking, IMO.
To save on the cost of a 12v module, you might consider a 1.5v quartz movement (analog desk clock size) that easily pops out of your console trim for a bi-annual battery change. Promotion companies like this one may be able to custom print the face with a Porsche crest - or at least "928" if copyrights are an issue (China doesn't care).
In your overall design, have you considered the gearshift throw in R, 2nd & 4th for all generations of 5 speeds, including the last gen. short shifters?
If you need to confirm exact measurements across all model runs, ask for them, and I'm sure you'll get help from 5 speed owners.

Jerry Feather

Hi J.P. This really has my brain going in circles. I mean literally. First I went in a small circle when I didcovered that the auto shifter was not going to work with the first design of the alternate trim piece, the one for the flush mount project. In that circle I went to a much larger opening based on an arc, then a similar lartge opening based on more of half an oval, both of which limited the space for the original clock or one about the same size, then I had an idea to extend that part of the clock panel where the clock would be, downward, in a sense putting back some recess, which I didn't like, and finally back to the idea of doing two styles of clock panels.

Now I think I am about to complete a larger circle based on what you are suggesting, which is very much in accord with my own desires, and that is to simply go all the way back to a single alternate trim piece with the wider clock panel for both kinds of cars--5 speed and autos.

However, what that is going to entail is to move the auto shifter aft about an inch or so. Actually I am going to take one of mine apart in the morning, one where the shifter is pretty well exposed, and see what it is going to take to move it back. It seems to me that it is based on a cable and not rods, so there ought to be some flexibility in where it is placed. I am thinking that I might make an adapter plate that both moves it aft about an inch and up about a half inch both of which will give the clearance to work with the trim piece with a smaller opening and the bigger clock panel. That way I will have the option of any of the clocks that I have been considering in any of the cars.

Here are some pictures of what I am looking at to consider this optional means to this desired end.

The first one shows the basic undecorated auto shifter in its naked form. I am going to take it out tomorrow and see what it might take to move it aft.

The second and third ones show an auto shifter in the most foreward and most aft position. From these views it would seem to have plenty of room to move aft.

Now, based on J.P.'s suggestion, I would appreciate similar pictures of the 5 speed shifter in various model years in both the fore and aft position so I can verify that my assumption about clearance is correct. Any takers?

Thanks, Jerry Feather

JPTL

Jerry, last thing I wanted to do is put your brain in circles. You're re-inventing & improving the wheel here, and diverting you off of your mission certainly wasn't my intent.
I can certainly provide you with stock 'short shifter' measurements if that's what would help. Consider those forthcoming.
But since it seems that you've laid a huge portion of the ground work, wouldn't the adjustments/options for autos with/without clocks; and 5 speeds with/without clocks be a small variation from the underlying design...or am I not quite getting it?

Jerry Feather

J.P., You are not causing the circle, you are only helping it make the circuit. Your thoughts are really a good part of the process, and very helpful.

The ideal solution is one trim piece that works with both shifters and still provides for various clock choices, including the origianl clock. Also the ideal, in my mind, is one with a relatively small opening for the shifter, like I was trying to develop. I think the two things that the one-off approach to the flush concept needs to be perfect are to cure the gap in front of the shifter and to reduce the multiple seams or joints. Those are the two very small refinements that I am hoping to accomplish. To do so I have shortened the trim piece around the shifter and made the opening a little smaller, and in doing so I have allowed another quarter inch of space for the upper panel to provide spacing for those components. In addition, I am going to utilize a shifter boot, but base it on an insert that mounts very high in the shifter opening in order to help close up that space. But, I still need to be able to move the auto shifter to accomplish this.

Again, your input is helpful and not causing me any problems. In fact I think it helps to complete the latest circle; and if I am lucky that one will really be complete. Stand by for further investigation about moving the auto shifter.

Jerry Feather

Jerry Feather

P.S. In regard to the shifter measurments, it is my impression the the shifter for the 5 speeds has the same throw whether short or long shifter. If that is not correct, then I am sure that measurements of the extent of throw for each or all of them will be important to verify. Send me what you have that migh help with that. JF

Jerry Feather

Status report! I didn't get a lot done today, at least on this project. I spent the useful part of my day putting new brakes on my wife's Cadillac. It had been giving a terrible pulsing/surging reaction when the brakes get hot going down a mountain pass. I forcast that there was either a broken rotor, or a poorly cast rotor. Turned out to be the latter. It had been cast with core shift that put the vent holes off about a sixteenth of an inch on one side, so I replace all of them though they were not otherwise bad. Had a lot of trouble figuring out how to collapse the rear caliper pistons, but finally went on line and figured it out and went and got the little tool I needed to screw them back in with.

On the trim pieces, I did get to take the shifter loose in the car I showed the picture of with no trimmings. I can't move it much, probably until I disconnect the cable from the trans, but what I find is that it will easily move up a half inch, and, by looking at another shifter I have in spare parts, I think by grinding out a chunk of the shifter body it can easily be moved back an inch or more.

I am going to work on that some more, and particularly on the design of an adapter plate that can be used for the shifter move, Then I am going to move happily on with the original concept for the alternate trim piece for the flush console concept. That's what I mean by making a circle in the design of this thing. Its really nice when the circle ends up where I started rather than going tangent at some point before it is complete.

I am going to work on the cross bars for these trim pieces and see if I can get some progress going again, probably in the morning.

I hope many of you are having a great time at SITM.

Jerry Feather

Jerry Feather

After I decided I can move the automatic shifter back and up a little and then decided to stay with my original alternate trim design with the wider, top to bottom, upper cross-bar, I was able to get back to making a little progress on the design. Fortunately I had not acted on my other idea to put an arc at the upper shifter opening, so I still have all 4 of my cross bar material pieces to make alternate clock opening with.

What I needed to do with these was to drill all of them to match the mounting holes in the trim piece form side plates and then redrill them to quarter inch and then counter bore them. That doesn't sound like much but it was kind of tedious getting it done. I had done the initial drilling a couple of days ago.

I also had to relieve the lower edges so they will make a smooth transition with the side plates. Here are some pictutres of the simple but tiresome process I went through.

The first thing I did was draw lines on the bottom of the cross-bars to show the limits of the relief cuts across the lower edges. Then I put the bars in the mill vise and milled the relief inward a quarter of an inch, the radius of the inside of the curvature I am putting all around the inside edge of this trim form. I did this at each end first with the bar flat in the vise and then turned them up on edge to finish the cuts.

In two, three and four, I have cut the relief at both ends on all three bars then put them together in the vise on edge and end-milled the relief cut completely out.

In the fifth picture I am using the 7/32 icnh bit I used to drill the mounting holes with, now to locate the holes so each one can be drilled out to the quarter inch major size and then counter bored.

You can see all three of the extra bars here with the intial holes drilled. These I drilled with the minor size since that it the bit I used to locate these with the threaded holes in the side plates.

Jerry Feather

the process that I had to go through with the drilling and counterboring of the holes was first to locate a hole with the minor drill bit then remove the bit and put in the major bit. However I was using an end mill instead of a bit, because it is actually a few thousandths over a quarter inch which give a little flexibility, and because it has a 3/8 inch shank and the saved me changing the collet a couple of times.

After the hole is located, I change the collet and put in the 3/8 inch collet and the quarter inch end mill the drill the hole out to that siae, then change the bit and not the collet and put in a 3/8 inch end mill and use it to counterbore the hole. The counter bore hides the socket head of the bolts below the surface, in case you hadn't noticed.

This first picture shows me drilling a hole out with the quarter inch end mill used as a drill.

Second I have counter bored that hole; and third shows the hole with a bolt in it.

Fourth and fifth shows all of the extra cross-bars drilled and counterbored laying on the alternate trim form. You can also see that I have dressed the corners of the cross-bar on the one in the form. I have re-milled the curvature on the lower edge of that bar and then filed the corners with my trusty rasp to get the contour I want.

There is still the remains of the arc I had drawn on the first cross-bar, but that will no longer be coming into play.

Jerry Feather

This last picture simply shows the curvature of the side plate with a cross bar mounted together with my original paper-glued-to-aluminum pattern. I am doing this to compare progress with the original intent.

What I have to do next is put each of the alternate cross-bars in the vise and mill the curvature on the lower edge, then put each in the form, in turn, so I can mill some of the corner areas of each and then dress them out with my rasp. I think I will do some of that a little later.

After that I am going to lay out some of the clock openings and try to mill the holes out for at least the original clock and for either version of the Infiniti clocks I have found. I also have to do some kind of relief on the cross bars so that I can form the rear AC switch openings flat for those versions of this trim piece that will be used with rear AC. Some will have this and some will not.

Jerry Feather

Jerry Feather

I have two of the upper cross-bars fitted to the alternate male form now, and have nearly finished cutting the opening in one of them for the eliptical Infiniti clock I faund recently. It is a little bigger then the ones I showed you earlier and will suit this trim piece much better because of it.

I started by cutting three holes in the bar first with a lugger bit that I have which makes a pretty big hole. Then I opened up each of the holes with my small fly cutter, making the left and right holes an inch and a half and the center one two inches. Then I used my fly cutter in an intermediate size and kind of blended in the inner and outer holes. This gives me a shape that is pretty close to what I will end up with.

Jerry Feather

Remember what I said about learning to do machine work with files and such? Here i am making the final blend of the holes with my trusty wood rasp. It cuts the aluminum pretty agressively and doesnn't take to long to remove some material. I have the upper half of the hole filed pretty close to the final shape.

OOPS, it looks like the hole is a little bigger than the clock. Actually that is not an error. It is intended to be that way because I infend to form some character in this panel in the plastic forming process. You will see later how that is going to work.

I hope you like the looks of this little clock. I don't have any idea how much they might cost at the Nissan dealer, but if they are fairly readily available, I think this is going to become the norm for analog clocks in this flush console project.