Re-design and fabricate console trim piece--HOW TO
05-30-2010, 08:40 PM
#76
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Here are the last of today's efforts.
Rather that say what each picture shows I will just suggest that you can tell by these that I have made a pretty good effort at duplicating the shape of the original trim piece. That's really all that these pictures show.
Rather that say what each picture shows I will just suggest that you can tell by these that I have made a pretty good effort at duplicating the shape of the original trim piece. That's really all that these pictures show.
05-30-2010, 10:00 PM
#78
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks Greg. I can't seem to figure out how to get it to fucus each time in what I think is the macro mode. I think all I need to do is wait a little for it befoer I push for the final shot. Thanks again. I'll keep trying to get it right.
05-30-2010, 10:58 PM
#80
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I have tomorrow off, so I think I will try to figure out how to mill the opening in the upper cross-bar for the little infiniti clock that I have been designing around. One approadh to this would be to draw the desired opening on the aluminum then put it in my jigsaw and cut it out and then dress it up with my trusty file. That is actually not a bad idea.
However, since I am such a skilled machinist, I will probabnly use my small rotary table and then develop some tooling to hold the crosss-bar and then mill the opening with the mill. Of course, since an elipse has an unusual shape in terms of curvature, I will still end up finishing the rough milled opening to the exact shape with my trusty file.
As a point of interest, when I studied precision machining some time ago, my instructor explained the the earlier method of teaching machining was to give the students a drawing and then let them develop the work piece with such things as files and hacksaws and grinders. When they became proficient with those tool was when they were allowed to use the mill and lathe to make similar parts.
I didn''t have to learn that way, but in a sense I did learn that way because that was all I had to work with for many years. It wasn't until the last three decades or so that I obtained the machine equipment to do this stuff with precision. Nevertheless, I have not forgotten how to use files, saws and grinders to advantage--so I can make things that I want when needed.
That all has come into play in this project. I hope that those of you who think you cannot do this kind of work because you don't have the equipment will consider that you may be able to do just what I am doing here and with very basic tools not including the mill and lathe. It would take a lot of effort, but what else do you have to do with your time????
However, since I am such a skilled machinist, I will probabnly use my small rotary table and then develop some tooling to hold the crosss-bar and then mill the opening with the mill. Of course, since an elipse has an unusual shape in terms of curvature, I will still end up finishing the rough milled opening to the exact shape with my trusty file.
As a point of interest, when I studied precision machining some time ago, my instructor explained the the earlier method of teaching machining was to give the students a drawing and then let them develop the work piece with such things as files and hacksaws and grinders. When they became proficient with those tool was when they were allowed to use the mill and lathe to make similar parts.
I didn''t have to learn that way, but in a sense I did learn that way because that was all I had to work with for many years. It wasn't until the last three decades or so that I obtained the machine equipment to do this stuff with precision. Nevertheless, I have not forgotten how to use files, saws and grinders to advantage--so I can make things that I want when needed.
That all has come into play in this project. I hope that those of you who think you cannot do this kind of work because you don't have the equipment will consider that you may be able to do just what I am doing here and with very basic tools not including the mill and lathe. It would take a lot of effort, but what else do you have to do with your time????
05-31-2010, 01:14 AM
#81
Rennlist Member
I almost feel guilty just writing a couple of sentences about it. I am also a machinist, not my main skill but that is impressive, hope it pays off for you.
. So many think that near enough is good enough and that's what they strive for ... and usually achieve that or less. If you aim for perfection you'll hardly ever totally achieve it ... but you'll usually come very close. It's good to see and hear of what you're doing .. keep up the good work.Dave
05-31-2010, 01:27 AM
#82
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks Dave. I'm really tickled that you understand the process so well. I couldn't do a "HOW TO" if I didn't include what is going through my brain as I do it, because that is a major part of the process. That includes the need to back up occasionally and do something over, and sometimes it includes to even give up when I reach a point beyond which I cannot proceed. I don't think that will happen here, but it is always a possibility.
This is a lot of fun and very creative, which is a great outlet for anyone.
Jerry Feather
FBA Certified
This is a lot of fun and very creative, which is a great outlet for anyone.
Jerry Feather
FBA Certified
05-31-2010, 10:55 AM
#83
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I woke up this morning with several thoughts going off in my head about this project. One was the need to bevel the underneath side of the inside edge of the front cross-bar. Another was the thought of doing the same with the outside edge of the rear bar. I think I have decided to do just the front one since that is important to allow clearance for the ashtray lid to open. The rear one I think I will not bevel since that might make the formed trim piece too difficult to remove from the form and I can simply grind off the plastic and glue in a stiffener to make up for the loss in rigidity, if any. The ground-off edge in the rear will not show, but the front one will.
The other thought I am having has to do with the alternate trim piece I have mentioned developing along with this which I can use in the same forming machine. That is the trim piece for the flush mount center console conversion I have decided to develop.
In order to do the alternate trim piece I will need to consider the substantially different forming process it will have. For example, this original one will be formed deep on the inside edge to emulate the original and shallow on the outside edge because it only needs about a half inch of material there to fit into the original mounting slots in the console.
On the other hand, the alternate flush trim piece will need to be formed deeper on the outside to make of for the added height for flushness and still reach down the the mounting slots; but on the inside edge of the shifter opening I am going to form it more shallow and put a flange at the bottom where an insert will fit to which is fastened the leather shifter boot. Too, that opening is going to be smaller than the one Kieth ended up with in order to eliminate the big void you can see in his just foreward of the shifter boot. I think it will look a lot better with that closed up.
Another thought I have is to make the form for the alternate trim piece out of thicker aluminum, because it doesn't have to be just like the original, and then finish the upper edge with a rounding tool rather that bevel it. I guess we will have to wait and see how that will look.
That certainly gives me some stuff to work on today. Happy Memorial Day to you all. Jerry
The other thought I am having has to do with the alternate trim piece I have mentioned developing along with this which I can use in the same forming machine. That is the trim piece for the flush mount center console conversion I have decided to develop.
In order to do the alternate trim piece I will need to consider the substantially different forming process it will have. For example, this original one will be formed deep on the inside edge to emulate the original and shallow on the outside edge because it only needs about a half inch of material there to fit into the original mounting slots in the console.
On the other hand, the alternate flush trim piece will need to be formed deeper on the outside to make of for the added height for flushness and still reach down the the mounting slots; but on the inside edge of the shifter opening I am going to form it more shallow and put a flange at the bottom where an insert will fit to which is fastened the leather shifter boot. Too, that opening is going to be smaller than the one Kieth ended up with in order to eliminate the big void you can see in his just foreward of the shifter boot. I think it will look a lot better with that closed up.
Another thought I have is to make the form for the alternate trim piece out of thicker aluminum, because it doesn't have to be just like the original, and then finish the upper edge with a rounding tool rather that bevel it. I guess we will have to wait and see how that will look.
That certainly gives me some stuff to work on today. Happy Memorial Day to you all. Jerry
05-31-2010, 11:05 AM
#84
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I woke up this morning with several thoughts going off in my head about this project. One was the need to bevel the underneath side of the inside edge of the front cross-bar. Another was the thought of doing the same with the outside edge of the rear bar. I think I have decided to do just the front one since that is important to allow clearance for the ashtray lid to open. The rear one I think I will not bevel since that might make the formed trim piece too difficult to remove from the form and I can simply grind off the plastic and glue in a stiffener to make up for the loss in rigidity, if any. The ground-off edge in the rear will not show, but the front one will.
The other thought I am having has to do with the alternate trim piece I have mentioned developing along with this which I can use in the same forming machine. That is the trim piece for the flush mount center console conversion I have decided to develop.
In order to do the alternate trim piece I will need to consider the substantially different forming process it will have. For example, this original one will be formed deep on the inside edge to emulate the original and shallow on the outside edge because it only needs about a half inch of material there to fit into the original mounting slots in the console.
On the other hand, the alternate flush trim piece will need to be formed deeper on the outside to make of for the added height for flushness and still reach down the the mounting slots; but on the inside edge of the shifter opening I am going to form it more shallow and put a flange at the bottom where an insert will fit to which is fastened the leather shifter boot. Too, that opening is going to be smaller than the one Kieth ended up with in order to eliminate the big void you can see in his just foreward of the shifter boot. I think it will look a lot better with that closed up.
Another thought I have is to make the form for the alternate trim piece out of thicker aluminum, because it doesn't have to be just like the original, and then finish the upper edge with a rounding tool rather that bevel it. I guess we will have to wait and see how that will look.
That certainly gives me some stuff to work on today. Happy Memorial Day to you all. Jerry
The other thought I am having has to do with the alternate trim piece I have mentioned developing along with this which I can use in the same forming machine. That is the trim piece for the flush mount center console conversion I have decided to develop.
In order to do the alternate trim piece I will need to consider the substantially different forming process it will have. For example, this original one will be formed deep on the inside edge to emulate the original and shallow on the outside edge because it only needs about a half inch of material there to fit into the original mounting slots in the console.
On the other hand, the alternate flush trim piece will need to be formed deeper on the outside to make of for the added height for flushness and still reach down the the mounting slots; but on the inside edge of the shifter opening I am going to form it more shallow and put a flange at the bottom where an insert will fit to which is fastened the leather shifter boot. Too, that opening is going to be smaller than the one Kieth ended up with in order to eliminate the big void you can see in his just foreward of the shifter boot. I think it will look a lot better with that closed up.
Another thought I have is to make the form for the alternate trim piece out of thicker aluminum, because it doesn't have to be just like the original, and then finish the upper edge with a rounding tool rather that bevel it. I guess we will have to wait and see how that will look.
That certainly gives me some stuff to work on today. Happy Memorial Day to you all. Jerry
05-31-2010, 07:39 PM
#85
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Well, I was right. That certainly did give me quite a bit to do today. What I did was designed the alternate trim male form and then went through essentially the same process as you have already seen to make a pattern, cut the side plates out in the band saw, file them smooth together, cut the upper cross-bar to rough size, drilled it, drilled the side plates and mounted them on the machine base plate and then went through all of that same or similar busy work the get it mostly fabricated.
I'll show you some pictures in a minute, but first I want to go over some of my thoughts on the new form. One thing I did was increase the thichness of the side plates to half inch. I did that because I don't think I need to have the shifter opening quite so large and because the half inch material gives me more flexibility in machining and drilling bolt holes and such. That will result in the finish width of the trim side-member will be about 5/8 of and inch or slightly more. I think it will look nice covered with leather.
Another thing I did, which I might have mentioned before, was to start shaping the inner edges of the shifter hole with a corner rounding tool rather than beveling them. I got two of the edges done to close to finished and will do the edges on the side plates after I take the alternate form off the base to finish it up.
Another thing I did in designing the alternate trim piece was to shorten it a little more that I think Kieth did. I pulled it down about an extra quarter inch from just eliminating the ashtray. Then too, I made the clock panel about a quarter inch wider than the original. What that does is make the shifter opening about a half inch shorter than the original.
One thing that doing the corner rounding on the shifter hole does is make the corners a little tighter than one might like. The problem is that the minor diameter on my corner rounding tool is half inch. The corner rounding gives a 3/8 inch radius so that is a nice soft curve and goes well with the half inch material I'm using. I guess we I will have to see how the tighter radius in the corners looks.
This first picture is the alternate form with the side plates formed and with the recess cut and the rough milled upper bar material in place.
Second, I am working on the original form's upper bar with my big countersink beveling it underneath for clearance for the ashtray lid.
Thind, after I beveled the two corners with the bar flat in the mill vise I turned it up and beveled across that way.
Fourth is the finished cross bar with the bevel filed out and installed; and last I have the two forms side by side for some comparison.
I'll show you some pictures in a minute, but first I want to go over some of my thoughts on the new form. One thing I did was increase the thichness of the side plates to half inch. I did that because I don't think I need to have the shifter opening quite so large and because the half inch material gives me more flexibility in machining and drilling bolt holes and such. That will result in the finish width of the trim side-member will be about 5/8 of and inch or slightly more. I think it will look nice covered with leather.
Another thing I did, which I might have mentioned before, was to start shaping the inner edges of the shifter hole with a corner rounding tool rather than beveling them. I got two of the edges done to close to finished and will do the edges on the side plates after I take the alternate form off the base to finish it up.
Another thing I did in designing the alternate trim piece was to shorten it a little more that I think Kieth did. I pulled it down about an extra quarter inch from just eliminating the ashtray. Then too, I made the clock panel about a quarter inch wider than the original. What that does is make the shifter opening about a half inch shorter than the original.
One thing that doing the corner rounding on the shifter hole does is make the corners a little tighter than one might like. The problem is that the minor diameter on my corner rounding tool is half inch. The corner rounding gives a 3/8 inch radius so that is a nice soft curve and goes well with the half inch material I'm using. I guess we I will have to see how the tighter radius in the corners looks.
This first picture is the alternate form with the side plates formed and with the recess cut and the rough milled upper bar material in place.
Second, I am working on the original form's upper bar with my big countersink beveling it underneath for clearance for the ashtray lid.
Thind, after I beveled the two corners with the bar flat in the mill vise I turned it up and beveled across that way.
Fourth is the finished cross bar with the bevel filed out and installed; and last I have the two forms side by side for some comparison.
05-31-2010, 07:53 PM
#86
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Here are some more pictures mostly for progress and comparison.
First I am cutting the lower inside edge of the upper cross-bar.
Second I am corner rounding the inside edge of the lower cross-bar.
Third and fourth I am rounding the inner edge of the upper bar.
Last I have set the original form on top of the asternate form for comparison of the tail ends. I think youy can get some idea of the difference between rounding and beveling.
I can't remember where I got all the rust on my corner rounding tool, but it doesn't seem to affect its use.
First I am cutting the lower inside edge of the upper cross-bar.
Second I am corner rounding the inside edge of the lower cross-bar.
Third and fourth I am rounding the inner edge of the upper bar.
Last I have set the original form on top of the asternate form for comparison of the tail ends. I think youy can get some idea of the difference between rounding and beveling.
I can't remember where I got all the rust on my corner rounding tool, but it doesn't seem to affect its use.
06-01-2010, 11:17 PM
#88
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I wonder why it is that after I have logged in and have typed a lot of a new post I want to send, then I am suddenly un-logged and what I have written goes away. Then I have to log in again and start over. Anyone have a clue? Jerry
06-01-2010, 11:40 PM
#89
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
To make a long story short, I discovered that by pulling the clock panel downand back a little further than just to replace the ashtray spot and then widening the clock panel about a quarter inch, and further, then moving the trim piece up to flush and then aft to fill the void, I was shortening the shifter opening nearly an inch. When looking at a 5 speed shifter, there seem to be enough room still to shift the 6 gears, but when I looked at an auto with the shifter in park and then measured mine I found that I need to put back about 3/8 inch of space.
What that means is that i think I am going to put a slight arc in the front inside edge of the shifter opening and see how that looks. I have quite a bit of extra tooling to work with and the use of my large rotary table will come into play, but I think the end result will be nice.
I also have to develop extra upper cross-bars to provide tooling for different clocks that members might like to have in their panels, including primarily the original clock.
No pictures are included tonight since all I got done was locating and drilling the mounting holes in the three exrtra cross-bars while the alternate form is in the mill.
Anything beyond this and I will become guilty of D & P.
Jerry
What that means is that i think I am going to put a slight arc in the front inside edge of the shifter opening and see how that looks. I have quite a bit of extra tooling to work with and the use of my large rotary table will come into play, but I think the end result will be nice.
I also have to develop extra upper cross-bars to provide tooling for different clocks that members might like to have in their panels, including primarily the original clock.
No pictures are included tonight since all I got done was locating and drilling the mounting holes in the three exrtra cross-bars while the alternate form is in the mill.
Anything beyond this and I will become guilty of D & P.
Jerry
06-01-2010, 11:59 PM
#90
Rennlist Member
As a point of interest, when I studied precision machining some time ago, my instructor explained the the earlier method of teaching machining was to give the students a drawing and then let them develop the work piece with such things as files and hacksaws and grinders. When they became proficient with those tool was when they were allowed to use the mill and lathe to make similar parts.
I didn''t have to learn that way, but in a sense I did learn that way because that was all I had to work with for many years. It wasn't until the last three decades or so that I obtained the machine equipment to do this stuff with precision. Nevertheless, I have not forgotten how to use files, saws and grinders to advantage--so I can make things that I want when needed.
That all has come into play in this project. I hope that those of you who think you cannot do this kind of work because you don't have the equipment will consider that you may be able to do just what I am doing here and with very basic tools not including the mill and lathe. It would take a lot of effort, but what else do you have to do with your time????
I didn''t have to learn that way, but in a sense I did learn that way because that was all I had to work with for many years. It wasn't until the last three decades or so that I obtained the machine equipment to do this stuff with precision. Nevertheless, I have not forgotten how to use files, saws and grinders to advantage--so I can make things that I want when needed.
That all has come into play in this project. I hope that those of you who think you cannot do this kind of work because you don't have the equipment will consider that you may be able to do just what I am doing here and with very basic tools not including the mill and lathe. It would take a lot of effort, but what else do you have to do with your time????
I also have a small axe to have ground re your project, I'll send you a pm.