Re-design and fabricate console trim piece--HOW TO
06-02-2010, 01:16 AM
#92
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
[QUOTE
I also have a small axe to have ground re your project, I'll send you a pm.[/QUOTE]
OK. Let's talk. Jerry
I also have a small axe to have ground re your project, I'll send you a pm.[/QUOTE]
OK. Let's talk. Jerry
06-02-2010, 12:40 PM
#93
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Hi Martin. I still don't have a PM from you, so my interest is piqued.
The usual phrase "I have an ax to grind with you about..." suggests that you have a dispute to take up with me, or you have an ulterior motive, or you have private ends to serve, about this project. Metaphoricallky that envisions you holding the ax and me turning the grinding stone for you.
However, a careful reading of your quote shows that you have said that you have a small ax "TO HAVE GROUND." That suggests that perhaps it is someone elses dispute, motive or private end that you have in mind as if someone else will be holding the ax and having me turn the stone.
Therefore, I am anxiously awaiting the PM.
Jerry
The usual phrase "I have an ax to grind with you about..." suggests that you have a dispute to take up with me, or you have an ulterior motive, or you have private ends to serve, about this project. Metaphoricallky that envisions you holding the ax and me turning the grinding stone for you.
However, a careful reading of your quote shows that you have said that you have a small ax "TO HAVE GROUND." That suggests that perhaps it is someone elses dispute, motive or private end that you have in mind as if someone else will be holding the ax and having me turn the stone.
Therefore, I am anxiously awaiting the PM.
Jerry
06-02-2010, 03:51 PM
#94
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks, Nicole, for your thoughts and encouragement. It helps keeping me going, and I find that this is especially important at this stage of this project. I'll try to explain that a little further.
I had previously described the progress or process of this project as being in the nature of "organic." The more I think about what I am doing here the more like that I think it really is--organic.
The first thing that got this started was the sead planted by Hans with his inquiry about making this kind of trim piece. That sead germinated into a sprout of concept to do just that, but with my own objective in mind of adapting another kind of clock to my cars without an analog clock. At that point the project began a stalk or trunk with the beginning of the development of the forming machine and the male form to make the subltitute trim piece.
Then the project began to branch out with the ideas of making alternate forms of the original trim form to adapt other possible clocks and also to adapt the optional concept of making this trim piece without the space for the ashtray by providing a way to form this with extra blank space for other purposes.
So, at that point I had a little plant or perhaps tree with a few branches and with the trunk continuing to fill out in the development of the forming machine. The trunk even had to be pruned or adjusted a little to adapt the better development of the articulating plastic frame. You might look at that event as simply pulling the tree back upright with a rope or cable anchored to hold it there while it continued to grow straight. However, the few little branches do not seem to be taking much away from the continuing growth toward the kind of tree I had originally envisioned.
From that point I could have anticipated the continued growth of the tree with three or four branches and the development of the trunk which would each take about the same effort, but with fairly focused growth into the simple little tree I was planning on. However, things changed somewhat, and before I go into that analogy, I want to tell you about one of my actual plant-growth experiences, which I will do in the next post.
Jerry
I had previously described the progress or process of this project as being in the nature of "organic." The more I think about what I am doing here the more like that I think it really is--organic.
The first thing that got this started was the sead planted by Hans with his inquiry about making this kind of trim piece. That sead germinated into a sprout of concept to do just that, but with my own objective in mind of adapting another kind of clock to my cars without an analog clock. At that point the project began a stalk or trunk with the beginning of the development of the forming machine and the male form to make the subltitute trim piece.
Then the project began to branch out with the ideas of making alternate forms of the original trim form to adapt other possible clocks and also to adapt the optional concept of making this trim piece without the space for the ashtray by providing a way to form this with extra blank space for other purposes.
So, at that point I had a little plant or perhaps tree with a few branches and with the trunk continuing to fill out in the development of the forming machine. The trunk even had to be pruned or adjusted a little to adapt the better development of the articulating plastic frame. You might look at that event as simply pulling the tree back upright with a rope or cable anchored to hold it there while it continued to grow straight. However, the few little branches do not seem to be taking much away from the continuing growth toward the kind of tree I had originally envisioned.
From that point I could have anticipated the continued growth of the tree with three or four branches and the development of the trunk which would each take about the same effort, but with fairly focused growth into the simple little tree I was planning on. However, things changed somewhat, and before I go into that analogy, I want to tell you about one of my actual plant-growth experiences, which I will do in the next post.
Jerry
06-02-2010, 04:18 PM
#95
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
The thing that happened next was the introduction of the Kieth Widom style idea as a possible and very desirable direction to go with this project. I hadn't seen Kieth's project before, and the more I looked at it and then looked at what I have with the original recessed design, the more I fell in love with the flush concept. What that did was also in the nature of organic, and might be likened to actually two, and not just one, plant growth experiences in my past.
This new (to me) concept can be likened to a graft upon my little tree or perhaps more like a parasitic growth next to and in conjunction with my little tree.
When I was in High School I learned a little about grafting plants from one to another; and we had two different kind of cherry trees and one apple tree in our front yard. I cut some little branches off of each of the cherry trees and granted two or three from each tree onto the other. I simply cut them at an angle and taped them back together tightly with electrical tape and they all took. I even tried to graft cherry branches onto the apple tree, but they did not take. (I didn't realize it at the time, but the apple tree actually had about five different varities of apples on it all by having been grafted on the original trunk when the tree was very young.)
The other experience I had was when I lived in Indianapolis for a few years we had a nice place on which there was a sizable area in front that had been a pear orchard but had been allowed to grow wild. There was one hardwood tree in there that had some kind of wild grape vines growing around it which had actually simply grown up into the branches and upper areas of the tree essentially doubling its foliage. The problem was that since nature kind of designed the tree to hold itself up including its component parts, it was not actually designed to hold up twice as much. That was not a big deal until there was an ice storm which would in effect double the amount of ice that the tree had to hold up and since it could not the tree would start shedding its branches. I ended up killing the vine(s) and then had to pull them out of the tree with my pickup truck. I think I saved the tree that way.
Now, some of this is not hopefully analagous, but I suppose it could be. In either case, what has happened in this organic process is the the flush console idea has either found itself grafted onto my tree or is simply growing next to and within my tree and its branches. I don't want to think of the flush console plant as being parasitic, but I think that is the better analogy.
More about why I think this is analagous later. Maybe you can see what I am thinking on your own by now.
Jerry
This new (to me) concept can be likened to a graft upon my little tree or perhaps more like a parasitic growth next to and in conjunction with my little tree.
When I was in High School I learned a little about grafting plants from one to another; and we had two different kind of cherry trees and one apple tree in our front yard. I cut some little branches off of each of the cherry trees and granted two or three from each tree onto the other. I simply cut them at an angle and taped them back together tightly with electrical tape and they all took. I even tried to graft cherry branches onto the apple tree, but they did not take. (I didn't realize it at the time, but the apple tree actually had about five different varities of apples on it all by having been grafted on the original trunk when the tree was very young.)
The other experience I had was when I lived in Indianapolis for a few years we had a nice place on which there was a sizable area in front that had been a pear orchard but had been allowed to grow wild. There was one hardwood tree in there that had some kind of wild grape vines growing around it which had actually simply grown up into the branches and upper areas of the tree essentially doubling its foliage. The problem was that since nature kind of designed the tree to hold itself up including its component parts, it was not actually designed to hold up twice as much. That was not a big deal until there was an ice storm which would in effect double the amount of ice that the tree had to hold up and since it could not the tree would start shedding its branches. I ended up killing the vine(s) and then had to pull them out of the tree with my pickup truck. I think I saved the tree that way.
Now, some of this is not hopefully analagous, but I suppose it could be. In either case, what has happened in this organic process is the the flush console idea has either found itself grafted onto my tree or is simply growing next to and within my tree and its branches. I don't want to think of the flush console plant as being parasitic, but I think that is the better analogy.
More about why I think this is analagous later. Maybe you can see what I am thinking on your own by now.
Jerry
06-02-2010, 11:29 PM
#97
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I think I will finish my silly analogy a little later. Tonight I got a little bit done on the alternate form, basically corner rounding the inside edges. Before I started however, I did some further measurements and figured out that not only is my shifter opening too shorr for the automatic shifter in park, but it is shorter that I originally measured.
Tonight I re-measured and determined that when the shifter trim piece moves up to the flush position it moves back only about a quarter of an inch. In addition when it moves up it is also moving toward the center of the curvature in that area so that alone is making it shorter because the imaginary radius of the curve is shorter. That might mean that I am going to have to put back the quarter of an inch on the upper end I was trying to take out for a little more spacing in what will become the upper panel.
Nevertheless I think I will do it with an arc like I mentioned before. That is going to leave me a pretty narrow panel in the center for a clock, but still perhaps not too narrow for the little Infiniti clock I showed you before. It is going to be too narrow for the original clock, and probably even with an eighth or quarter of an inch added back.
This first picture shows the base and form off the mill table and the vise bolted back on. I have counter-bored the two other mounting holes for the upper bar and getting ready to trim both bars off flush with the side plates.
The second picture shows I am trimming the bars off flush; and third shows all trimmed.
Fourth and fifth I have used my trusty rusty corner rounding tool to round most of the inside edges of the form.
Tonight I re-measured and determined that when the shifter trim piece moves up to the flush position it moves back only about a quarter of an inch. In addition when it moves up it is also moving toward the center of the curvature in that area so that alone is making it shorter because the imaginary radius of the curve is shorter. That might mean that I am going to have to put back the quarter of an inch on the upper end I was trying to take out for a little more spacing in what will become the upper panel.
Nevertheless I think I will do it with an arc like I mentioned before. That is going to leave me a pretty narrow panel in the center for a clock, but still perhaps not too narrow for the little Infiniti clock I showed you before. It is going to be too narrow for the original clock, and probably even with an eighth or quarter of an inch added back.
This first picture shows the base and form off the mill table and the vise bolted back on. I have counter-bored the two other mounting holes for the upper bar and getting ready to trim both bars off flush with the side plates.
The second picture shows I am trimming the bars off flush; and third shows all trimmed.
Fourth and fifth I have used my trusty rusty corner rounding tool to round most of the inside edges of the form.
06-02-2010, 11:36 PM
#98
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
These last two pictures show the tail end of the form as rounded; and the last showing progress this far with a rough line drawn in where I think the front edge will likely end up.
06-02-2010, 11:37 PM
#99
Rennlist Member
Hi Martin. I still don't have a PM from you, so my interest is piqued.
The usual phrase "I have an ax to grind with you about..." suggests that you have a dispute to take up with me, or you have an ulterior motive, or you have private ends to serve, about this project. Metaphoricallky that envisions you holding the ax and me turning the grinding stone for you.
However, a careful reading of your quote shows that you have said that you have a small ax "TO HAVE GROUND." That suggests that perhaps it is someone elses dispute, motive or private end that you have in mind as if someone else will be holding the ax and having me turn the stone.
Therefore, I am anxiously awaiting the PM.
Jerry
The usual phrase "I have an ax to grind with you about..." suggests that you have a dispute to take up with me, or you have an ulterior motive, or you have private ends to serve, about this project. Metaphoricallky that envisions you holding the ax and me turning the grinding stone for you.
However, a careful reading of your quote shows that you have said that you have a small ax "TO HAVE GROUND." That suggests that perhaps it is someone elses dispute, motive or private end that you have in mind as if someone else will be holding the ax and having me turn the stone.
Therefore, I am anxiously awaiting the PM.
Jerry
06-02-2010, 11:39 PM
#100
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Here is one more picture in case you didn't follow my earlier convoluted description of how I am doing the measurement I discusssed.
06-03-2010, 01:19 AM
#101
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks Martin, for your PM. I think that the information you are interested in is quite relevant to this thread, so rather than limit it to a PM in return I am going to post it here.
I had been thinking that some of the information I have been providing so far about the alternate form of trim piece would have given some indication of where I am going with these extra branches on my original little tree. Here is what I have in mind.
First, You can see that I am clearly developing an alternate trim piece for the lower console trim that will be mounted flush with the upper surfaces/edges of the console. The only purpose for doing that is to work in conjunction with just exactly what Nicole and others have suggested would be the ideal away to develop the center console. I agree with them and you.
This trim piece will be formed in the same machine that the original trim piece I am designing will be formed in. That is why I am doing these together since it makes too much sense to develop these together in order to limit the set-up time associated with the development. Too, I can stretch my mind around both at this point without loosing track of the original concept. It does slow the progress on the original project, but so what, if the end result is something that might be usable to many more in the community.
This lower trim piece will end about where the modified trim piece that Kieth made out of the original one ends, unless I am successful in having it end a little shorter.
For the upper area of the console I am going to make a fairly simply panel that will have sides all around about an inch or inch and a half wide/deep so that with some glued on material it will snap right into the original channel where the current trim pieces snap in. It will be made of eighth inch thick ABS with the pebble finish out. It will be made so the the bare panel will install just exactly flush with the upper edges of the console. However, I am going to plan on adding to the surface of it an eighth inch of closed cell foam and then cover it with leather, either to match, or to contrast with something else in the car.
Before the panel is covered with foam and leather it will be built up with mounting points for the HVAC and AC Key panel and for the upper air vent. The air vent I think I will plan on cutting out of the original console and rotating it into position so it will work with the flap lever available, and then the vent louvers will simply be pushed in from the front and held in by friction. The flapper/damper will be glued into the new panel rather than the console.
Then I plan to make a little angular adapter to make the connection between the vent flapper and the airbox behind with weather stripping in between for a snug fit.
There will then be a space for a double DIN navigation Blender/microwave unit below the air vent. I expect that unit will be mounted to the console, but the air vent and HVAC control will be mounted to the new panel. With it all wired up the new panel can be simply pushed into position and snapped into place around the navigation unit with tabs or whatever to lock into the original channel.
I already have the piece of aluminum to make this upper panel. It will have a very slight curvature at the upper end downward where the
air vent is and a slight curvature upward at the lower end where the HVAC and key/AC pane are located. Too, the slightly greater curvature at the very bottom end will be accomodated with a slight angle in mounting these two pieces together. It will be real nice and smooth and basically flush with the slight raise above flush only from the thin layer of form and leather. I can hardly wait to finish one up so I can mock it up to see how it looks. I already know it is going to look great.
I do need to finish this lower trim piece first in order to know exactly how to make the upper panel. I have to allow for thickness of the plastic after formed and the leather I plan to use.
I think this flush console project will allow many of the members to move their existing components around, eliminating the ashtray and then putting in a Double Din component of their choosing and have the nice up-dated benefit of flushness. I think that is going to be very cost effective which is important to our guys and gals it these cars.
Does this answer you question? Stand-by for further development of this and the original concept.
Jerry
I had been thinking that some of the information I have been providing so far about the alternate form of trim piece would have given some indication of where I am going with these extra branches on my original little tree. Here is what I have in mind.
First, You can see that I am clearly developing an alternate trim piece for the lower console trim that will be mounted flush with the upper surfaces/edges of the console. The only purpose for doing that is to work in conjunction with just exactly what Nicole and others have suggested would be the ideal away to develop the center console. I agree with them and you.
This trim piece will be formed in the same machine that the original trim piece I am designing will be formed in. That is why I am doing these together since it makes too much sense to develop these together in order to limit the set-up time associated with the development. Too, I can stretch my mind around both at this point without loosing track of the original concept. It does slow the progress on the original project, but so what, if the end result is something that might be usable to many more in the community.
This lower trim piece will end about where the modified trim piece that Kieth made out of the original one ends, unless I am successful in having it end a little shorter.
For the upper area of the console I am going to make a fairly simply panel that will have sides all around about an inch or inch and a half wide/deep so that with some glued on material it will snap right into the original channel where the current trim pieces snap in. It will be made of eighth inch thick ABS with the pebble finish out. It will be made so the the bare panel will install just exactly flush with the upper edges of the console. However, I am going to plan on adding to the surface of it an eighth inch of closed cell foam and then cover it with leather, either to match, or to contrast with something else in the car.
Before the panel is covered with foam and leather it will be built up with mounting points for the HVAC and AC Key panel and for the upper air vent. The air vent I think I will plan on cutting out of the original console and rotating it into position so it will work with the flap lever available, and then the vent louvers will simply be pushed in from the front and held in by friction. The flapper/damper will be glued into the new panel rather than the console.
Then I plan to make a little angular adapter to make the connection between the vent flapper and the airbox behind with weather stripping in between for a snug fit.
There will then be a space for a double DIN navigation Blender/microwave unit below the air vent. I expect that unit will be mounted to the console, but the air vent and HVAC control will be mounted to the new panel. With it all wired up the new panel can be simply pushed into position and snapped into place around the navigation unit with tabs or whatever to lock into the original channel.
I already have the piece of aluminum to make this upper panel. It will have a very slight curvature at the upper end downward where the
air vent is and a slight curvature upward at the lower end where the HVAC and key/AC pane are located. Too, the slightly greater curvature at the very bottom end will be accomodated with a slight angle in mounting these two pieces together. It will be real nice and smooth and basically flush with the slight raise above flush only from the thin layer of form and leather. I can hardly wait to finish one up so I can mock it up to see how it looks. I already know it is going to look great.
I do need to finish this lower trim piece first in order to know exactly how to make the upper panel. I have to allow for thickness of the plastic after formed and the leather I plan to use.
I think this flush console project will allow many of the members to move their existing components around, eliminating the ashtray and then putting in a Double Din component of their choosing and have the nice up-dated benefit of flushness. I think that is going to be very cost effective which is important to our guys and gals it these cars.
Does this answer you question? Stand-by for further development of this and the original concept.
Jerry
06-03-2010, 04:05 AM
#102
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Hot Diggity
keep on truckin' Jerry, Martin, Nicole, et al! 
This thread is awesome. i think the flush design is a complete update of the interior and brings the car into the present day in many ways. it's always tough to mate surfaces exactly all the time and IMO the flush look wont suffer if the trim panel is shy of the tops of the surrounding dash pieces by 1/16" or 1/8" (sorry, my millimeter mesurement mind isn't functioning this evening). just my .02 - i leave the tolerance up to you! Jerry, this is an amazing amount of work and dedication - really something; i've learned so much about how these pieces are made from your thread - thank you. Keep on this great work, i hope to be a flush console customer in the near future!
cheers!
This thread is awesome. i think the flush design is a complete update of the interior and brings the car into the present day in many ways. it's always tough to mate surfaces exactly all the time and IMO the flush look wont suffer if the trim panel is shy of the tops of the surrounding dash pieces by 1/16" or 1/8" (sorry, my millimeter mesurement mind isn't functioning this evening). just my .02 - i leave the tolerance up to you! Jerry, this is an amazing amount of work and dedication - really something; i've learned so much about how these pieces are made from your thread - thank you. Keep on this great work, i hope to be a flush console customer in the near future!
cheers!
06-03-2010, 06:59 PM
#105
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
After taking and posting that last picture showing me taking the shifter measurement, I have been studying that view some. What has occurred to me is, first, that the shifter for the Automatic is off center to the left, so If I put an arc in the front edge of my shifter opening as shown I will need to make it even farther foreward that I had hoped. What that would mean is that I may not have enough space for the clock, even the little Infiniti clock I have been designing the other trim piece around.
The other thing that I think I have discovered is that the flush center console as done by Kieth and Mike will not work with the automatic the way they have done it. I think their clock panels will be in the way of the auto shifter. It looks to me like both of their cars are 5 speed.
What that means is that I need to figure some way to accomodate a clock, and I think I need to figure out how to accomodate the original clock, and still be able to do the flush panel that will work with the auto cars. That is going to take me a little different direction with this trim piece for the flush conversion.
I already have an idea of how to do it and still close up the shifter opening like I originally had in mind since I think that is what is needed to spiff up this concept.
The other thing that I think I have discovered is that the flush center console as done by Kieth and Mike will not work with the automatic the way they have done it. I think their clock panels will be in the way of the auto shifter. It looks to me like both of their cars are 5 speed.
What that means is that I need to figure some way to accomodate a clock, and I think I need to figure out how to accomodate the original clock, and still be able to do the flush panel that will work with the auto cars. That is going to take me a little different direction with this trim piece for the flush conversion.
I already have an idea of how to do it and still close up the shifter opening like I originally had in mind since I think that is what is needed to spiff up this concept.