1979 hatch alignment
05-08-2010, 10:21 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
1979 hatch alignment
I just bought a 1979 928 and the rear hatch opens and closes but the gap is larger on the left hand side than on the right and the right hand side and the right rear corner is slightly raised.
Is there a way to adejust this to resolve this issue? I did a search but perhaps I used the wrong terms.
Thanks
Jim
Is there a way to adejust this to resolve this issue? I did a search but perhaps I used the wrong terms.
Thanks
Jim
05-08-2010, 10:28 PM
#2
Nordschleife Master
Jim, great to see you at the *** GTG today! Man did we have an excited group!!! Lots of new 928 owners and lots of excitement and enthusiasm! I LOVE IT!!!
05-08-2010, 10:53 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Very little adjustment. Virtually none in the hinges. The black rubber stop pads are used to adjust, but generally in unison, R & L.
I had one with a larger gap on the left edge. Turned out the hatch itself was bent / sprung. Probably from the nastiest-of-all-time wing install retro. Struggled for a long time, then just bought a new hatch and it solved it instantly. Hatches for these should be readily available, especially in TX where there are apparently lots of 928s.
I had one with a larger gap on the left edge. Turned out the hatch itself was bent / sprung. Probably from the nastiest-of-all-time wing install retro. Struggled for a long time, then just bought a new hatch and it solved it instantly. Hatches for these should be readily available, especially in TX where there are apparently lots of 928s.
05-09-2010, 01:30 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
05-09-2010, 07:58 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
The hinges can be adjusted, but it really takes two people. Where one side of the hinge attaches to the roof, the hinges are about 45° off vertical. Loosening the hinge from inside the car will allow you to slide it fore/aft a few mm, but as it moves forward it raises up, as it moves to the rear it lowers the hinge point. With the hatch closed, the top of the hatch should continue the roofline smoothly without a step up or step down.
The corners are adjusted by screwing the rubber bumpers in or out.
Given your description of the gap being wider on the left, I would expect that the hatch either "steps down" from the roofline on the left side, or it "steps up" from the roofline on the right side. If the forward/top edge of the hatch lines up perfectly with the roof and you have this problem, something is probably bent.
To help us help you, take pictures from roof height of the seam between the hatch and the roof, looking along the gap. Also post pics of the gaps on either side, the rear and corners.
To help illustrate what I am talking about, look at this pic:
From this vantage, you would take two steps forward and angle the camera a bit right then crouch down a bit so you are looking down the gap between roof and hatch. Do this from both sides, and for the res take pics that illustrate the problem.
The corners are adjusted by screwing the rubber bumpers in or out.
Given your description of the gap being wider on the left, I would expect that the hatch either "steps down" from the roofline on the left side, or it "steps up" from the roofline on the right side. If the forward/top edge of the hatch lines up perfectly with the roof and you have this problem, something is probably bent.
To help us help you, take pictures from roof height of the seam between the hatch and the roof, looking along the gap. Also post pics of the gaps on either side, the rear and corners.
To help illustrate what I am talking about, look at this pic:
From this vantage, you would take two steps forward and angle the camera a bit right then crouch down a bit so you are looking down the gap between roof and hatch. Do this from both sides, and for the res take pics that illustrate the problem.
05-10-2010, 10:55 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Okay attached are the pictures. Seal looks good all around as do the left and right bumpers. They are mid travel. The hatch side latch looks good but the car side recepticle has a plastic sleve on the inside edge of the latch opening and it is falling apart.
05-11-2010, 12:16 AM
#7
Jim,
I can see what you mean. I would suggest that if you go through my old post as I have written up a couple of write ups on adjusting the rear hatch and one contains how to do a full adjustment from the hinges right through to the final set up of the closing and opening mechanism.
From the look of your insert it is close to total failure. Inserts are available, just do a "search" and you will locate the rennlist member who has made the inserts.
Tails 1990 928S4 Auto.
I can see what you mean. I would suggest that if you go through my old post as I have written up a couple of write ups on adjusting the rear hatch and one contains how to do a full adjustment from the hinges right through to the final set up of the closing and opening mechanism.
From the look of your insert it is close to total failure. Inserts are available, just do a "search" and you will locate the rennlist member who has made the inserts.
Tails 1990 928S4 Auto.
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05-11-2010, 08:46 AM
#8
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks Tails. I finally found a bunch of posts on the subject as well as your write up.
Seems there is a lot of discussion about the latch being the primary problem. My question now is since my lower reciever insert is falling apart and the right hand side is missing is that what is causing the hatch to be be closer to the right and raised up or is the hatch alignment what caused the reciever insert to break apart, or is it both?
Jim
Seems there is a lot of discussion about the latch being the primary problem. My question now is since my lower reciever insert is falling apart and the right hand side is missing is that what is causing the hatch to be be closer to the right and raised up or is the hatch alignment what caused the reciever insert to break apart, or is it both?
Jim
05-11-2010, 09:03 AM
#9
Rennlist Member
Insert plastic/rubber deteriorates with time and just breaks with incidental contact.
Alignment in that direction, left/right across the back of the car, should be a function of the mounting of the hatch, its shape, and the shape of the body.
Alignment in that direction, left/right across the back of the car, should be a function of the mounting of the hatch, its shape, and the shape of the body.
05-11-2010, 01:33 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
I agree, the hatch alignment is not a function of that receptacle. Can you post pics of the top seam where the hatch meets the roof? I'm interested in top and side views of that seam from both sides of the car.
05-11-2010, 07:34 PM
#11
I agree with Landseer and Dave.
The hatch is very heavy and it is not prone to racking too much otherwise the glass can break.
The closing mechanism is not strong enough to rack the hatch off centre and the insert breakes up with age, so I would suggest you get a new insert and remove and overhaul the hatch latch and test it independent from the car and leave it off while you are carring out the hatch adjustments.
Remember the hatch is very heavy, so take the necessary safety precautions.
In adjusting and aligning the hatch is going to be a case of removing the two side guide pieces, lowering the two rear screwed bump pieces and leaving the upper and lower sections of the hatch latch off the car during these adjustments, so that the hatch will be free to move around a little with the adjustments.
First check at the front of the hatch to see whether the forward edge is parallel to the top of the passenger compartment roof in the horizontal plane by taking your sights both sides whilst standing near the back of the doors noting any higher or lower spots. Now check whether the gap is parallel and whether the hatch back of the hatch need to be moved sideways.
If the hatch is proud of the body or it is beneath the body line of the roof you will need to adjust the hinges up or down by adding or removing shims from the front section of the hinge to raise the hatch or add shims to lower the hatch. I you don't have shims at the front section you will have to add or remove shims from the aft section of the hinge to get the up and down movement required (Note: removing shims from the front or back of the hinges have a oposite affect to the raising or lowering of the hatch). When you raise or lower the front edge of the hatch it will have an affect on the rear height of the hatch, as the hatch is very still and won't rack.
Note when you make these adjustments that the aft end of the hatch moves in the direction you require and wont make the gap at the back worse. If it does there will have to be a trade off in the front hinge adjustment and alainment and final parallel fit with the body in the horizontal plane at the rear.
If the hinge adjustments does make the gap worse at the rear then you have a racked hatch and you may need to look at a replacement or maybe you can remove the rear plastic bumper and shim it up into position as required, if it can be move within the body aperture without reducing the gap around where the plastic tube fits between the body and the plastic bumper too much.
If you do adjust the hinges, don't fully tighten them yet, just lightly nip the bolts up, as this is also the time to check the longitudional parallel fit of the hatch into the body of the car. If the sides of the hatch are not parallel, you can move the hatch sideways or forward and aft to get the best fit into the body.
When you have the best achievable fit on the 4 sides of the body and you have the front of the hatch parallel with the roof line and at the right height, now adjust the aft bump plugs to get the best fit into the body line above the rear quarter windows while continuously checking the gap across the back of the hatch and its parallel fit with the rear bumper line.
When the best fit is achieved tighten up the hinges and check again. When you are satisfied reinstall the hatch latch mechanism, as described in my previous write-ups ensuring that the male section of the hatch latch is not under stress in the wrong direction otherwise it will fracture the sides sections.
Now fit the side guides back in to stop any sideways movement of the hatch, adust the opening latch mechanism as per the WSM and you should be done.
Tails 1990 928S4 Auto.
The hatch is very heavy and it is not prone to racking too much otherwise the glass can break.
The closing mechanism is not strong enough to rack the hatch off centre and the insert breakes up with age, so I would suggest you get a new insert and remove and overhaul the hatch latch and test it independent from the car and leave it off while you are carring out the hatch adjustments.
Remember the hatch is very heavy, so take the necessary safety precautions.
In adjusting and aligning the hatch is going to be a case of removing the two side guide pieces, lowering the two rear screwed bump pieces and leaving the upper and lower sections of the hatch latch off the car during these adjustments, so that the hatch will be free to move around a little with the adjustments.
First check at the front of the hatch to see whether the forward edge is parallel to the top of the passenger compartment roof in the horizontal plane by taking your sights both sides whilst standing near the back of the doors noting any higher or lower spots. Now check whether the gap is parallel and whether the hatch back of the hatch need to be moved sideways.
If the hatch is proud of the body or it is beneath the body line of the roof you will need to adjust the hinges up or down by adding or removing shims from the front section of the hinge to raise the hatch or add shims to lower the hatch. I you don't have shims at the front section you will have to add or remove shims from the aft section of the hinge to get the up and down movement required (Note: removing shims from the front or back of the hinges have a oposite affect to the raising or lowering of the hatch). When you raise or lower the front edge of the hatch it will have an affect on the rear height of the hatch, as the hatch is very still and won't rack.
Note when you make these adjustments that the aft end of the hatch moves in the direction you require and wont make the gap at the back worse. If it does there will have to be a trade off in the front hinge adjustment and alainment and final parallel fit with the body in the horizontal plane at the rear.
If the hinge adjustments does make the gap worse at the rear then you have a racked hatch and you may need to look at a replacement or maybe you can remove the rear plastic bumper and shim it up into position as required, if it can be move within the body aperture without reducing the gap around where the plastic tube fits between the body and the plastic bumper too much.
If you do adjust the hinges, don't fully tighten them yet, just lightly nip the bolts up, as this is also the time to check the longitudional parallel fit of the hatch into the body of the car. If the sides of the hatch are not parallel, you can move the hatch sideways or forward and aft to get the best fit into the body.
When you have the best achievable fit on the 4 sides of the body and you have the front of the hatch parallel with the roof line and at the right height, now adjust the aft bump plugs to get the best fit into the body line above the rear quarter windows while continuously checking the gap across the back of the hatch and its parallel fit with the rear bumper line.
When the best fit is achieved tighten up the hinges and check again. When you are satisfied reinstall the hatch latch mechanism, as described in my previous write-ups ensuring that the male section of the hatch latch is not under stress in the wrong direction otherwise it will fracture the sides sections.
Now fit the side guides back in to stop any sideways movement of the hatch, adust the opening latch mechanism as per the WSM and you should be done.
Tails 1990 928S4 Auto.
05-11-2010, 08:30 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
FYI, The hatch forward edge raises as it moves forward and lowers as it moves aft. Shims may not be necessary. I asked for additional pictures to help assess it. I have some thoughts already but don't want to say anything without the additional pics.
05-11-2010, 09:56 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
So here are the pics of the top edge. Seems like a bit more gap left side than right but hard to tell as a little at the top translates to a lot at the bottom.
05-11-2010, 10:28 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
OK, I'll go ahead and say it -- it looks like something is bent. It appears that the car has been resprayed, so maybe it was in some kind of accident. I'd say look under the tool panel and in the wheelwells, under the rear bumper, spare well/battery box etc. for signs of a major repair. Also check along the edges of the hatch itself for signs that the metal was buckled, pounded, or otherwise worked on.
See how the hatch is sitting lower than the roofline on the passenger side? That means the hinge is sitting low in the mounting holes, which should result in a larger gap between hatch and roof on that side -- yet you say the gap is smaller on that side. This should also result in a wider gap on the right-hand gap between the hatch and the quarter window - yet you have a wider gap on the opposite side.
It's hard to say what exactly is bent. If you want to pursue this, IMHO the best way to start is to line up the hatch so that the gap at the roof is even all the way across and so that it continues the curve of the roof without that "dropoff" that you have now, and reassess the situation. You can also measure with the hatch open, from the trailing edge of the roof straight back to the point where the quarter panel meets the bumper on each side, also measure diagonally between those points looking for differences. Also measure the hatch itself on each long dimension and diagonally between the corners.
See how the hatch is sitting lower than the roofline on the passenger side? That means the hinge is sitting low in the mounting holes, which should result in a larger gap between hatch and roof on that side -- yet you say the gap is smaller on that side. This should also result in a wider gap on the right-hand gap between the hatch and the quarter window - yet you have a wider gap on the opposite side.
It's hard to say what exactly is bent. If you want to pursue this, IMHO the best way to start is to line up the hatch so that the gap at the roof is even all the way across and so that it continues the curve of the roof without that "dropoff" that you have now, and reassess the situation. You can also measure with the hatch open, from the trailing edge of the roof straight back to the point where the quarter panel meets the bumper on each side, also measure diagonally between those points looking for differences. Also measure the hatch itself on each long dimension and diagonally between the corners.
