928 RS4 Project... needs 378hp
03-11-2010, 10:04 AM
#31
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Throwing in my thoughts on your question:
1. For the money, do a stock engine rebuild with some extra head work for better flow, drilled crank for the 2/6 oiling problem, oil pan and oil scraper mods to help with track oiling issues and install an accusump system. It's not fun building up a racer and having the engine go boom on you.
2. Install a super charger system that has a proven track survivability history.
3. Install headers, Y pipe and a light single exhaust system, 3.5" or 4" will be perfect. Before anyone flames me look into the capability of flow through such a system. Anything below 500 HP this system will be fine.
4. Use the Shark Tuner and a dyno to tune that engine and super charger properly. Money and time well spent or else you will most probably suffer engine damage. At least not run the engine at it's optimum.
5. Don't go too crazy with suspension mods or brake mods. The 928 can do very well with most of it's suspension and brake system, especially the S4 brakes, left alone but with a few tweaks. Better brake pad compounds, sway bars front and rear, known springs and shocks. You can dump a lot of money here with little gained over tweaked stock systems. Just because you can adjust shocks two or three ways doesn't mean you will do so correctly.
A word about horse power, it's nice but torque is a great commodity on the track and what will shoot you ahead out of a corner over a higher horsepower car with less torque. BTDT.
Have fun,
1. For the money, do a stock engine rebuild with some extra head work for better flow, drilled crank for the 2/6 oiling problem, oil pan and oil scraper mods to help with track oiling issues and install an accusump system. It's not fun building up a racer and having the engine go boom on you.
2. Install a super charger system that has a proven track survivability history.
3. Install headers, Y pipe and a light single exhaust system, 3.5" or 4" will be perfect. Before anyone flames me look into the capability of flow through such a system. Anything below 500 HP this system will be fine.
4. Use the Shark Tuner and a dyno to tune that engine and super charger properly. Money and time well spent or else you will most probably suffer engine damage. At least not run the engine at it's optimum.
5. Don't go too crazy with suspension mods or brake mods. The 928 can do very well with most of it's suspension and brake system, especially the S4 brakes, left alone but with a few tweaks. Better brake pad compounds, sway bars front and rear, known springs and shocks. You can dump a lot of money here with little gained over tweaked stock systems. Just because you can adjust shocks two or three ways doesn't mean you will do so correctly.
A word about horse power, it's nice but torque is a great commodity on the track and what will shoot you ahead out of a corner over a higher horsepower car with less torque. BTDT.
Have fun,
03-12-2010, 07:07 PM
#32
Race Director
Throwing in my thoughts on your question:
1. For the money, do a stock engine rebuild with some extra head work for better flow, drilled crank for the 2/6 oiling problem, oil pan and oil scraper mods to help with track oiling issues and install an accusump system. It's not fun building up a racer and having the engine go boom on you.
2. Install a super charger system that has a proven track survivability history.
3. Install headers, Y pipe and a light single exhaust system, 3.5" or 4" will be perfect. Before anyone flames me look into the capability of flow through such a system. Anything below 500 HP this system will be fine.
4. Use the Shark Tuner and a dyno to tune that engine and super charger properly. Money and time well spent or else you will most probably suffer engine damage. At least not run the engine at it's optimum.
5. Don't go too crazy with suspension mods or brake mods. The 928 can do very well with most of it's suspension and brake system, especially the S4 brakes, left alone but with a few tweaks. Better brake pad compounds, sway bars front and rear, known springs and shocks. You can dump a lot of money here with little gained over tweaked stock systems. Just because you can adjust shocks two or three ways doesn't mean you will do so correctly.
A word about horse power, it's nice but torque is a great commodity on the track and what will shoot you ahead out of a corner over a higher horsepower car with less torque. BTDT.
Have fun,
1. For the money, do a stock engine rebuild with some extra head work for better flow, drilled crank for the 2/6 oiling problem, oil pan and oil scraper mods to help with track oiling issues and install an accusump system. It's not fun building up a racer and having the engine go boom on you.
2. Install a super charger system that has a proven track survivability history.
3. Install headers, Y pipe and a light single exhaust system, 3.5" or 4" will be perfect. Before anyone flames me look into the capability of flow through such a system. Anything below 500 HP this system will be fine.
4. Use the Shark Tuner and a dyno to tune that engine and super charger properly. Money and time well spent or else you will most probably suffer engine damage. At least not run the engine at it's optimum.
5. Don't go too crazy with suspension mods or brake mods. The 928 can do very well with most of it's suspension and brake system, especially the S4 brakes, left alone but with a few tweaks. Better brake pad compounds, sway bars front and rear, known springs and shocks. You can dump a lot of money here with little gained over tweaked stock systems. Just because you can adjust shocks two or three ways doesn't mean you will do so correctly.
A word about horse power, it's nice but torque is a great commodity on the track and what will shoot you ahead out of a corner over a higher horsepower car with less torque. BTDT.
Have fun,
The current engine in lemons has 24 hours on track.....which is probably about a seasons worth of DE-sprint races....& I am confident the oil will come back perfect...... 100% stock with just a retrograde to the oil style oil sump + a 3/8th pan spacer.....thats it......no accusump, no oil cooler....nothing and no PRESSURE drops in the corners!!! I never ever saw less than 75psi in higher RPM corners (we were taking corners between 3-4000).....with RPM's up higher say 5000 it was near 100psi
03-12-2010, 07:59 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
Since your horsepower goals are modest (..very smart), I would not do the supercharger install with its added complexity, weight, and tuning. That's a lot of extra moving parts just for an additional 50 rwhp (..270 to 320).
Instead, I would do a stock S4 engine with GT or S3 cams, headers, x-pipe, and a free-flow exhaust, and tweak it on they dyno with a fuel-pressure regulator. This setup should get you an easy 320 rwhp which will hit your target crank hp assuming a manual tranny.
Simple, simple, simple!
Bonus points for a drilled crank, Kevin's scraper, and an accusump for reliability.
The beauty of this setup is that it should run forever as it's essentially a stock engine, thus easy on the drivetrain too.
Instead, I would do a stock S4 engine with GT or S3 cams, headers, x-pipe, and a free-flow exhaust, and tweak it on they dyno with a fuel-pressure regulator. This setup should get you an easy 320 rwhp which will hit your target crank hp assuming a manual tranny.
Simple, simple, simple!
Bonus points for a drilled crank, Kevin's scraper, and an accusump for reliability.
The beauty of this setup is that it should run forever as it's essentially a stock engine, thus easy on the drivetrain too.
03-13-2010, 09:28 AM
#34
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100% stock with just a retrograde to the oil style oil sump + a 3/8th pan spacer.....thats it......no accusump, no oil cooler....nothing and no PRESSURE drops in the corners!!! I never ever saw less than 75psi in higher RPM corners (we were taking corners between 3-4000).....with RPM's up higher say 5000 it was near 100psi
03-15-2010, 02:07 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Gee, doesnt that sound familar???? 
Almost all the failures that ive seen or heard about, came from suspect engines to start with, and some oil that breaks down at high temp.
So, you basically, found an undamaged engine that was fairly clean and beat the snot out of it with Amsoil. hmmm, Ive done that for 10 years of hard core racing and have supported or been involved with 4 other cars over the same period of time without issues. maybe there is something too it.
mk
Almost all the failures that ive seen or heard about, came from suspect engines to start with, and some oil that breaks down at high temp.
So, you basically, found an undamaged engine that was fairly clean and beat the snot out of it with Amsoil. hmmm, Ive done that for 10 years of hard core racing and have supported or been involved with 4 other cars over the same period of time without issues. maybe there is something too it.
mk
Speaking from PURE experience....it is NOT fun to buy a "racer" 928 and watch it blow up after 6 trackdays.....ask me how I know...... Build the engine correctly ONCE...& it will last on track.....reliability is far more important than peak power
The current engine in lemons has 24 hours on track.....which is probably about a seasons worth of DE-sprint races....& I am confident the oil will come back perfect...... 100% stock with just a retrograde to the oil style oil sump + a 3/8th pan spacer.....thats it......no accusump, no oil cooler....nothing and no PRESSURE drops in the corners!!! I never ever saw less than 75psi in higher RPM corners (we were taking corners between 3-4000).....with RPM's up higher say 5000 it was near 100psi
The current engine in lemons has 24 hours on track.....which is probably about a seasons worth of DE-sprint races....& I am confident the oil will come back perfect...... 100% stock with just a retrograde to the oil style oil sump + a 3/8th pan spacer.....thats it......no accusump, no oil cooler....nothing and no PRESSURE drops in the corners!!! I never ever saw less than 75psi in higher RPM corners (we were taking corners between 3-4000).....with RPM's up higher say 5000 it was near 100psi
03-15-2010, 06:50 PM
#37
As to your two valve engine choices, I have what you want, I built it from scratch and it has heaps of torque not hp. It makes it very easy to drive and with an auto I think torque will be your friend. This is not a stripped out racer, it is my street car that even has its sub woofer and amp in it.
Now my times start at 0 mph unlike the other two where they set their rollout at 5 mph. So the graph looks a bit more in their favour than it really is but those are two very powerful cars mine was up against. My car is around 3100 pounds to 3200 pounds depending how much fuel is in it.
Also at the time the car was hard to get off the line with wheel hop being a problem so I didn't use full throttle till second gear. So if you download from Motor Trend or Car and Driver the GT3 and or Turbo spec sheet which quotes all their times. Compare from 30 mph upwards and you will get an idea of the speed. It can actually match (very closely) the GT3 from 30 mph onwards.
The engine is normally aspirated and 5.o litres.
Greg
Now my times start at 0 mph unlike the other two where they set their rollout at 5 mph. So the graph looks a bit more in their favour than it really is but those are two very powerful cars mine was up against. My car is around 3100 pounds to 3200 pounds depending how much fuel is in it.
Also at the time the car was hard to get off the line with wheel hop being a problem so I didn't use full throttle till second gear. So if you download from Motor Trend or Car and Driver the GT3 and or Turbo spec sheet which quotes all their times. Compare from 30 mph upwards and you will get an idea of the speed. It can actually match (very closely) the GT3 from 30 mph onwards.
The engine is normally aspirated and 5.o litres.
Greg
03-15-2010, 09:46 PM
#38
Race Director
Gee, doesnt that sound familar????
Almost all the failures that ive seen or heard about, came from suspect engines to start with, and some oil that breaks down at high temp.
So, you basically, found an undamaged engine that was fairly clean and beat the snot out of it with Amsoil. hmmm, Ive done that for 10 years of hard core racing and have supported or been involved with 4 other cars over the same period of time without issues. maybe there is something too it.
mk
Almost all the failures that ive seen or heard about, came from suspect engines to start with, and some oil that breaks down at high temp.
So, you basically, found an undamaged engine that was fairly clean and beat the snot out of it with Amsoil. hmmm, Ive done that for 10 years of hard core racing and have supported or been involved with 4 other cars over the same period of time without issues. maybe there is something too it.
mk
I sent the oil our for analysis today...but other than being 18 hours old...I think it will come back fine...... quite an improvement over the last engine that didn't even finish the race!!!!
03-15-2010, 10:30 PM
#39
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The plot thickens... in addition to the M28/11 in the garage, I'm now the proud owner of a 1987 S4 (high mileage). I'm awefully tempted to just swap everyting over to the RS4 project and see what happens... so basically, all options that include a 5.0L are on the table.
03-15-2010, 10:34 PM
#40
Nordschleife Master
That is what I would do...it will be MUCH, MUCH faster to getting the car back on road and track!
What model year is the racer based on? The only problem that you might encounter is not enough room if you try to put an S4 auto trans in an early chassis...they don't fit. You have to do some cutting. That is what I did... Can't speak to a late 5spd into an early 5spd chassis...
What model year is the racer based on? The only problem that you might encounter is not enough room if you try to put an S4 auto trans in an early chassis...they don't fit. You have to do some cutting. That is what I did... Can't speak to a late 5spd into an early 5spd chassis...
03-15-2010, 10:37 PM
#41
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That is what I would do...it will be MUCH, MUCH faster to getting the car back on road and track!
What model year is the racer based on? The only problem that you might encounter is not enough room if you try to put an S4 auto trans in an early chassis...they don't fit. You have to do some cutting. That is what I did... Can't speak to a late 5spd into an early 5spd chassis...
What model year is the racer based on? The only problem that you might encounter is not enough room if you try to put an S4 auto trans in an early chassis...they don't fit. You have to do some cutting. That is what I did... Can't speak to a late 5spd into an early 5spd chassis...
03-15-2010, 11:01 PM
#43
I wanted to do the S4 look as well, but it was painted before I thought about it.
