hopwood

Guys, am I missing something here? Surely there was no euro 32 valve OB as there was in the US. This car is the twin-dizzy 4.7 16v if it's a euro 86.

And yes it does make an 86.5 32v look anaemic, just look at the numbers! 310hp, 10.4:1 CR, revs like a banshee...

Joel
ex 86 S2 euro
ex 87 S4 5spd
79 5spd with euro S2 engine - like this one...

Shane

Show me a dyno sheet for one that puts down more rwhp then what is possible with US '86.5 32v such as the one from my first 5sp. Stock other than a set of ebay chips.

PorKen

The 32V was available ROW '86 as option M298/299, engines M28.45/46. 9.3:1 compression = 4 HP less than the 10:1 USA M28.43/44 engines.

Note that they were rated with cats, versus the 16V which did not have cats. Torque peaks at 2500 rpm with the S3, and then keeps going, and going.

With an X-pipe w/cats, 55 psi FPR, and uprated chips, darkland/Karsten's ROW S3 5-spd dynoed at 240 KW, and 463 Nm(!) at the crank, on a Bosch loading dyno. (~284 hp/300 ftlb wheel.)

PorKen

Which are stock at WOT, anyway. (eBay=AutoThority chips have stock WOT EZF and LH maps.)

BTW: I need to get a care package (chips, clutchstop, blink'r) to you, along with the stuff I've been 'storing' for you.

tv

This is a friendly discussion because they are all great (and its silly to argue about such things)

That being said, You say chips like its nothing, that wakes it up to get more of its potential.

What car has a bigger throttle body? What has higher compression? The more radical cams?

More air + More fuel (the chips) under more compression = more power

You guys have done great work, but the Euro has more going for it. It just is.

Don't make me Bring Herr Hensler into this -





A gift to you US 32V fans

Here is the link to the March 3, 1985 Ney York Times car review for the introduction of the brand new 32 valve 928. This was probably the most influential review at the time.

http://www.nytimes.com/1985/03/03/sp...ome-power.html



excerpts - all i have seen, looks good -

By MARSHALL SCHUON (The New York Times); Sports Desk

March 3, 1985, Sunday

ABOUT CARS; NEW PORSCHE PACKS SOME POWER
, an outrageously fast Porsche 928-S. And even though I have backed...first year for the ''S'' version of Porsche's production flagship, and its larger...people with whom you want to get even, and Porsche might have done better not to pretend...

PorKen

All in good sport.


S3s and S2s share the same throttle body.

S2's have higher compression.

S3s have GT cams.



Vier ventil, fünf liter = more potential.

Put the S2's front muffler in place of the cats, and the S3 would probably have near the peak HP, stock.




That said, I think S2s have potential, and if I can't get hold of one here, I really may just have to visit Karsten in northern Germany, and spend some quality time on the A-bahn doing some chip testing (he has an S2 and an S3).

Shane

cool! Except you already got me a blink'r, unless you redesigned them.

I ask for a dyno sheet because I've driven a S2 and wasn't impressed, granted it was a slush box, but still just didn't seem as snappy as an S3 with slushbox, but that could have been maintenance related problems.

I'd like to see a dyno sheet for a "healthy" S2 5sp to see what they actually do in the really real world.

Ispeed

I saw a red '86 euro 5 speed 32v (with sport seats and leather dash) for sale back in '04. It had the S4 brakes and was pretty fast. They were asking way too much $$, but cool car anyways. It also had LSD...
I would have been happy with that car, rare too.

tv

Not the same throttle body PorKen.

Euro @ 80+mm vs. US 32V + S4 @ 75mm


Interestingly the MAF opening for LH Euro's thru GTS is the same @ 87mm



So air flow and compression are still looking good on the Euro. I am still looking at cams, I also believe those are the most agressive also. An engine being an air pump, the euro has a lot of gains to make and I believe that some good tuning, meaning a better map and bigger injectors if necessary will help.

danglerb

I've only run across a couple 86 Euro's in the US, both were the 32v smog motors. I assumed they were a dreg in the European market and were sold cheap to US servicemen.

Ispeed

I thought the "32v '86 euro" was simply Australian spec.

pcar928fan

I thought that was the GB and Australian market cars too...and that there were not many of them. I think Brian Long's book talks about it...I'll have to go check it out again.

Hilton

Australia and Switzerland both got only the 32V in '86 - last year for the 4.7L 16V for both countries was MY85.

However, as Porken notes above, the 32V engine was also an option available in other countries, just a not very commonly selected one.

e.g. In Germany the majority of 86's are 16V, however there are a few 32V '86 cars around too.

tv

m28 21 &22 16v LH euro 10.4

m28 43 &44 32V 10.1 us canada japan

m28 46&46 32V 9.3 aus, germany, switzerland, austria (86)

PorKen

Oh snap! Looks like I'm going to have to get some 16V LH throttle bodies.

I've been thinking about converting to a 16V cable setup, so I can get rid of the mess at the front of the engine, anyway.


The 16V doesn't need bigger injectors, but could use higher fuel pressure. The 55psi '87 S4 FPR that I use with my S3 chips will work on S2s (L-Jet too) which makes the 24# into ~28#. Just need to SharkTune to suit (or wait for my S2 chips).


But all this is academic, there's no replacement for displacement, and four valves are more efficient than two.