'86 Euro
01-08-2010, 11:47 PM
#46
Drifting
great cam info chart
https://rennlist.com/forums/940113-post211.html
The euro cams are the most radical it seems so far, highest lift, longest duration
good info Xlot
https://rennlist.com/forums/940113-post211.html
The euro cams are the most radical it seems so far, highest lift, longest duration
good info Xlot
01-08-2010, 11:53 PM
#47
Drifting
Oh snap! Looks like I'm going to have to get some 16V LH throttle bodies. 
I've been thinking about converting to a 16V cable setup, so I can get rid of the mess at the front of the engine, anyway.
The 16V doesn't need bigger injectors, but could use higher fuel pressure. The 55psi '87 S4 FPR that I use with my S3 chips will work on S2s (L-Jet too) which makes the 24# into ~28#. Just need to SharkTune to suit (or wait for my S2 chips).
But all this is academic, there's no replacement for displacement, and four valves are more effecient than two.
I've been thinking about converting to a 16V cable setup, so I can get rid of the mess at the front of the engine, anyway.
The 16V doesn't need bigger injectors, but could use higher fuel pressure. The 55psi '87 S4 FPR that I use with my S3 chips will work on S2s (L-Jet too) which makes the 24# into ~28#. Just need to SharkTune to suit (or wait for my S2 chips).
But all this is academic, there's no replacement for displacement, and four valves are more effecient than two.
I am running with 2 RRFPR from Dave R. and I run 47 PSI compared to 30 stock, because I found that made my car run the best as far as A/F. I also have a very free flowing custom exhaust. These changes made my euro quick.
But with a better map and more RPM's, then lighter valve's, porting, 944 springs, lighter pistons, yadda yadda........................
It will be interesting to see what you do
01-08-2010, 11:57 PM
#48
Pull out your copies of the premier issue of "928 Forum" from way back yonder days...and you'll find an article written by yours truly on the 86 Euro with the 32 valve M28/45 engine. This car was brought into Canada and was truly a nice example.
01-09-2010, 12:29 AM
#49
Inventor
Rennlist Member
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Thread Starter
BTW: I've had an ignition chip for S2s for a while now.
01-09-2010, 05:19 AM
#50
Rennlist Member
Ken ,
did you need S 2 chips? I have a spare ignitioncomputer from my green 85 S2.I can mail you the unit.
I have also a spare trottlebody.Need my S 3 a little surgery!? :-)
did you need S 2 chips? I have a spare ignitioncomputer from my green 85 S2.I can mail you the unit.
I have also a spare trottlebody.Need my S 3 a little surgery!? :-)
01-09-2010, 06:54 AM
#51
Good discussion - and points taken about the 32v engine. As PorKen said, at 5 litres and 4 valves/cyl it damn well <i>ought</i> to have greater potential!
But the M28-21 will always be my favourite 928 engine - the screamer.
Joel
01-09-2010, 09:47 AM
#52
Drifting
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An S4 is a stronger running car than a 16v euro. The 4.7 2 valve has a different sound, and is still great. The 2.75 gearing gets the most out of it vs. the 2.20 as far as feeling fast.
01-09-2010, 11:23 AM
#53
Team Owner
I was looking at the VIN numbers and from the 928 book by Brian Long, the Z before the GS isnt included in the book VIN sequences??
BTW I dont see any Reserve price listed, so highest bidder gets it, Now an under hood shot would be good i would guess its a 16V engine, as well as a shot of the VIN certification plate on the car and an EPA certificate for the DMV/smog station
BTW I dont see any Reserve price listed, so highest bidder gets it, Now an under hood shot would be good i would guess its a 16V engine, as well as a shot of the VIN certification plate on the car and an EPA certificate for the DMV/smog station
01-09-2010, 12:14 PM
#54
Drifting
The M28 21/22 LH EURO ENGINE SPEC TECHNICAL FACT LIST
The LH Euro S2 4.7 litre has :
1) Largest Throttle Body of 928's at 80+ mm (here)
2) Highest Compression @ 10.4:1 (GTS also)
3) Most Radical Cam's as measured by Lift and Duration (here)
4) same MAF ID @ 87 MM as all later models
5) is non-interference per WSM (and board consensus)
^^ for future reference and searches - 2 valve, camshaft, air flow, ID, euro S, 84-86
The LH Euro S2 4.7 litre has :
1) Largest Throttle Body of 928's at 80+ mm (here)
2) Highest Compression @ 10.4:1 (GTS also)
3) Most Radical Cam's as measured by Lift and Duration (here)
4) same MAF ID @ 87 MM as all later models
5) is non-interference per WSM (and board consensus)
^^ for future reference and searches - 2 valve, camshaft, air flow, ID, euro S, 84-86
01-09-2010, 12:34 PM
#55
Drifting
Well not always the case and I have been thinking of that and it seems the way a lot of top cars are now the thinking is get the power from revs and compression moreso than displacement.
4 valve/cyl V8's
Aston V8...........4.3 lt.......400bhp @ 7000
Audi R8............4.2 lt....420bhp @ 7800
BMW M3...........4.0 lt...... 414bhp @ 8300
F 430...............4.3 lt.....483bhp @ 8500
Maser GTS .......4.7lt......440bhp @ 7000
Merc E63...........6.2 lt.....507bhp @ 6800
2 Valve/cyl V8
Chevy z06 LS7..........7.0 lt......505bhp @ 6200 7000 max
They all have compression ratios between 11 and 12.5. So that has me thinking.
01-09-2010, 01:36 PM
#56
Inventor
Rennlist Member
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Thread Starter
The '86 S2 and S3 throttle bodies are very similar, so it should bolt right on to the housing. You may have to only swap the TB lever. I think your RdW S3 is running fine though, you should mail that S2 TB to me.
01-09-2010, 02:40 PM
#57
Rennlist Member
Ok!
I have here a couvert and the chip goes monday to you.I think I have the first version of your ignition chips for S 2.
I think my trottlebodylever is broken,it has play.
Mailing the S 2 trottlebody to you is maybe a bad idea.Much more power in your car and you went in lazymod! ;-)
That must prevent!
I have here a couvert and the chip goes monday to you.I think I have the first version of your ignition chips for S 2.
I think my trottlebodylever is broken,it has play.
Mailing the S 2 trottlebody to you is maybe a bad idea.Much more power in your car and you went in lazymod! ;-)
That must prevent!
01-09-2010, 03:07 PM
#58
Inventor
Rennlist Member
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Thread Starter
Größe Drosselklappe, bitte!
With a larger TB, and a new exhaust system (have to wait for better weather), maybe I can put off the mid-turbo for my '85 5-speed until next year.
With a larger TB, and a new exhaust system (have to wait for better weather), maybe I can put off the mid-turbo for my '85 5-speed until next year.
01-10-2010, 11:50 AM
#59
Rennlist Member
The trottlebody is 80 mm.I did a search in my fundus and have found the u shaped tube and tb.
Putting turbos in the enginedepartment is a brute-force approach. ;-)
Putting turbos in the enginedepartment is a brute-force approach. ;-)
01-10-2010, 12:11 PM
#60
Nordschleife Master
Its been awhile since I looked, but as I recall the Euro S2 and US 85/86 use the same casting for the throttle body. In either case, same or not, seems to me the whole early spider style intake has room for serious high end improvement.