Wires in Battery tray: which is which?
12-26-2009, 12:55 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Wires in Battery tray: which is which?
Hello all,
What better to do at Christmas than work on the newly acquired 928 in the garage...
I am currently working on getting my speedometer and fuel meter to work. By reading the threads and the wiring diagram I still have trouble finding out which wire is which. In order to make this thread useful I made photos of the three wire connectors in my battery tray:
1) connector with three wires: brown, brown white, brown yellow. This one has two wires interconnected (otherwise the car does not start).
2) five pin connector with four wires. Is this the one for the speedo sensor at the gearbox? ( I still need to buy the sensor. It is missing from the car)
3) two pin connector in the back of the tray with three wires going into it. 2x brown white and 1x brown.
I would like to find out which is which. Fuel sender? Fuel warning light? Speedo sensor?
You help is appreciated. Many thanks!
Leo.
The Netherlands.
What better to do at Christmas than work on the newly acquired 928 in the garage...
I am currently working on getting my speedometer and fuel meter to work. By reading the threads and the wiring diagram I still have trouble finding out which wire is which. In order to make this thread useful I made photos of the three wire connectors in my battery tray:
1) connector with three wires: brown, brown white, brown yellow. This one has two wires interconnected (otherwise the car does not start).
2) five pin connector with four wires. Is this the one for the speedo sensor at the gearbox? ( I still need to buy the sensor. It is missing from the car)
3) two pin connector in the back of the tray with three wires going into it. 2x brown white and 1x brown.
I would like to find out which is which. Fuel sender? Fuel warning light? Speedo sensor?
You help is appreciated. Many thanks!
Leo.
The Netherlands.
12-26-2009, 01:00 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
4 wires with the one blue , is the connector for the speedo. do you want to know what wire is the speedo, or confirmation of the connector used for speedo pickup?
12-26-2009, 01:15 PM
#3
Racer
Thread Starter
Hi Mark,
Help on any of the three connectors is welcome.
So the four wire connector is the speedo sensor. Does the speedo sensor have four wires?
Do you know ehat the other connectors are for? Fuel sensors?
Thanks.
Leo.
Help on any of the three connectors is welcome.
So the four wire connector is the speedo sensor. Does the speedo sensor have four wires?
Do you know ehat the other connectors are for? Fuel sensors?
Thanks.
Leo.
12-26-2009, 04:03 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Site Sponsor
Leo,
When asking for help, it is ALWAYS important to give the info on the car - year, transmission, USA/RoW/other, et.c
In this case, it is also important to give all of the wire colors in the connectors in question. With the wire colors, you can look at the wiring diagram and determine the circuits in question.
Brown is always an earth connection.
Brown with a colored stripe is always a switched earth. Brown/white is usually a switched ground circuit for the interior lights.
On the '87 models, the fuel sender circuit has brown, violet/black, and yellow/black wires.
The speedometer/odo sender has brown/red wires.
The hatch unlocking motor has brown, red, and yellow.
The hatch opening contact switch has brown, brown, and brown/white.
I don't remember what the brown/yellow is...
When asking for help, it is ALWAYS important to give the info on the car - year, transmission, USA/RoW/other, et.c
In this case, it is also important to give all of the wire colors in the connectors in question. With the wire colors, you can look at the wiring diagram and determine the circuits in question.
Brown is always an earth connection.
Brown with a colored stripe is always a switched earth. Brown/white is usually a switched ground circuit for the interior lights.
On the '87 models, the fuel sender circuit has brown, violet/black, and yellow/black wires.
The speedometer/odo sender has brown/red wires.
The hatch unlocking motor has brown, red, and yellow.
The hatch opening contact switch has brown, brown, and brown/white.
I don't remember what the brown/yellow is...
12-27-2009, 04:10 PM
#5
Racer
Thread Starter
Thank you Wally,
Here we go:
European model 1984, S2, with 1987 manual gearbox.
I did have a look at the (many) electrical diagrams in the manuals, but could not figure it out straight away (had some trouble reading the colorcodes on my DVD copy of the manual). With your new information, I had a look again at the car. The loose connector in the second picture is now no longer a mystery: it's the rear hatch Opening contact switch. I tested it and the interior lights lit up. Now all I need to do is find the actual contact switch because that seemd to be missing on mine. Can you tell me where it should be located?
The colors on the other connectors in the first picture are:
Brown/white + Brown + Brown/Yellow (the last two are connected. If I pull the connection, the car will not start. Fuel pump?)
and
Brown/Red + Brown/Red + Violet/Black + Violet/Black
I just ordered a speedo sensor for the 87 gearbox and will keep you updated on my progress. Being used to a Triumph TR6 where everthing is wires using three fuses, the 928 surely makes for some evening entertainment. Although the comedy electrics om my Fiat certainly gave me some practice.
It's great to have so many enthousiasts on this forum.
Leo.
Here we go:
European model 1984, S2, with 1987 manual gearbox.
I did have a look at the (many) electrical diagrams in the manuals, but could not figure it out straight away (had some trouble reading the colorcodes on my DVD copy of the manual). With your new information, I had a look again at the car. The loose connector in the second picture is now no longer a mystery: it's the rear hatch Opening contact switch. I tested it and the interior lights lit up. Now all I need to do is find the actual contact switch because that seemd to be missing on mine. Can you tell me where it should be located?
The colors on the other connectors in the first picture are:
Brown/white + Brown + Brown/Yellow (the last two are connected. If I pull the connection, the car will not start. Fuel pump?)
and
Brown/Red + Brown/Red + Violet/Black + Violet/Black
I just ordered a speedo sensor for the 87 gearbox and will keep you updated on my progress. Being used to a Triumph TR6 where everthing is wires using three fuses, the 928 surely makes for some evening entertainment. Although the comedy electrics om my Fiat certainly gave me some practice.
It's great to have so many enthousiasts on this forum.
Leo.
12-27-2009, 06:05 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Site Sponsor
Unfortunately, the wiring diagram for the '84 suck. They don't even have the color codes on the wires. I typically look at both the '83 diagrams (85%) and the '85 diagrams (15%) to try to figure things out.
The stock fuel pump wires are red/green and don't go thru the spare tire connectors.
The brown/yellow wire is the old neutral start switch from the automatic transmission. It should be connected to a good ground point on your car, or you can install the little brass jumper piece between terminals 30 and 87 in the socket for the starter relay - Relay XIV and ignore the brown/yellow wire. That is what I would do, as it eliminates an unneeded relay.
The hatch closure switch is on the bottom of the hatch latch receiver, behind the tool panel.
The fuel level sender on the '83 has violet/black, yellow/black, and brown wires.
The speedometer sensor uses brown/red wires.
The stock fuel pump wires are red/green and don't go thru the spare tire connectors.
The brown/yellow wire is the old neutral start switch from the automatic transmission. It should be connected to a good ground point on your car, or you can install the little brass jumper piece between terminals 30 and 87 in the socket for the starter relay - Relay XIV and ignore the brown/yellow wire. That is what I would do, as it eliminates an unneeded relay.
The hatch closure switch is on the bottom of the hatch latch receiver, behind the tool panel.
The fuel level sender on the '83 has violet/black, yellow/black, and brown wires.
The speedometer sensor uses brown/red wires.
12-28-2009, 10:06 AM
#7
Racer
Thread Starter
Thanks again Wally, I thought it was me who could not figure out the color coding on the '84 wiring diagram, being a newbie to 928 electrics. I have the other diagrams as well, so I will have a look at those. Thanks for this valuable info.
So, the connector with the briwn/yellow wire should then be the old neutral start switch. That solves mystery connector #2! (It indeed has the brown yellow connected to an earth point: the jumper wire between the brown and brown/yellow on the connector).
Which leaves the final connector with two times a violet/black and two times a brown/red. The violet/black must then be for the fuel level sender (which i indeed not working now) and the brown/red must then be speedometer sensor (which is indeed missing).
What puzzles me now is that there are two violet blacks and two brown/reds.
I can see the fuel level sender wires connected at the top of the tank under the round plastic cover. The wires then go into the wire harness. So I am puzzled on how to connect the violet/blacks.
Anyway. Your info got me a lot further now, so I will do some more digging into the car and into the '83 wiring diagram. I will keep you posted!
Leo.
So, the connector with the briwn/yellow wire should then be the old neutral start switch. That solves mystery connector #2! (It indeed has the brown yellow connected to an earth point: the jumper wire between the brown and brown/yellow on the connector).
Which leaves the final connector with two times a violet/black and two times a brown/red. The violet/black must then be for the fuel level sender (which i indeed not working now) and the brown/red must then be speedometer sensor (which is indeed missing).
What puzzles me now is that there are two violet blacks and two brown/reds.
I can see the fuel level sender wires connected at the top of the tank under the round plastic cover. The wires then go into the wire harness. So I am puzzled on how to connect the violet/blacks.
Anyway. Your info got me a lot further now, so I will do some more digging into the car and into the '83 wiring diagram. I will keep you posted!
Leo.
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12-30-2009, 02:41 PM
#9
Racer
Thread Starter
Did that. The only wires that were tucked away were the (jumpered) brake warning wires. I checked by removing the connection and the brake warning light showed on the instrument panel.
However, one of you other very good posts got me a step further again: in that post you described that blue/black wires are for the back up lights. This got me thinking, since today I noticed my back-up lights were not working either: the color that I thought was violet/black is actually blue/black. And the wires are probably for the back up light switch. It is likely that they mechanic chaning the gearbox (I have an '87 box on a '84 car) did not connect any of the switches on the gearbox (reverse switch and speedo/odo). Still puzzles me why there are two wires of the same color though...
I will do some further digging into the car.
However, one of you other very good posts got me a step further again: in that post you described that blue/black wires are for the back up lights. This got me thinking, since today I noticed my back-up lights were not working either: the color that I thought was violet/black is actually blue/black. And the wires are probably for the back up light switch. It is likely that they mechanic chaning the gearbox (I have an '87 box on a '84 car) did not connect any of the switches on the gearbox (reverse switch and speedo/odo). Still puzzles me why there are two wires of the same color though...
I will do some further digging into the car.
02-22-2010, 04:56 PM
#11
Racer
Thread Starter
I now put in the missing wires from the back-up light switch to the two blue/black wires. That got the back-up lights working.
I also bought a speedo sensor for the '87 five speed manual box, and connected it to the two brown/red wires, but nog such luck: speedo still does not work.
I will check the sensor with a magnet and report back.
So, still making progress, but I still do not know the speed I am driving at. I will have to keep a satnav system with me for now to avoid to many speeding tickets...
I also bought a speedo sensor for the '87 five speed manual box, and connected it to the two brown/red wires, but nog such luck: speedo still does not work.
I will check the sensor with a magnet and report back.
So, still making progress, but I still do not know the speed I am driving at. I will have to keep a satnav system with me for now to avoid to many speeding tickets...
02-22-2010, 07:17 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
The speedo problem might be in the pod. I think Dwayne did the work, below, on the 84 USA car.
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...ht=Speedometer
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...ht=Speedometer
Also, you can check wire continuity at the CE panel. I think T1 and T2 are the CE panel positions that correspond to the plug wires in the back of the car.
Also, I think H1 on the CE panel is the speedo signal going from the CE panel to the dashboard plug. Sitting in the drivers seat, pretending no pod, that H1 wire should correspond to terminal #2 of the leftmost of the three plugs that connect to the back of the instrument panel, ie, to the wire trace on the circuit board that leads to the speedo. That terminal is numbered. I have an 84 pod out right now and the wiring all exposed if you want any additional pictures or confirmations.
Also, lastly, to be done firstly though, lay on your back under the drivers dash and locate the collection of ground connections and clean them. They I think relate to the instrument panel for the most part.
Hope that helps. Nice shark. Just needs a healthy dose of Dutch orange paint.
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...ht=Speedometer
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...ht=Speedometer
Also, you can check wire continuity at the CE panel. I think T1 and T2 are the CE panel positions that correspond to the plug wires in the back of the car.
Also, I think H1 on the CE panel is the speedo signal going from the CE panel to the dashboard plug. Sitting in the drivers seat, pretending no pod, that H1 wire should correspond to terminal #2 of the leftmost of the three plugs that connect to the back of the instrument panel, ie, to the wire trace on the circuit board that leads to the speedo. That terminal is numbered. I have an 84 pod out right now and the wiring all exposed if you want any additional pictures or confirmations.
Also, lastly, to be done firstly though, lay on your back under the drivers dash and locate the collection of ground connections and clean them. They I think relate to the instrument panel for the most part.
Hope that helps. Nice shark. Just needs a healthy dose of Dutch orange paint.
02-22-2010, 07:44 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
Assuming you disconnect the battery, I have had success using a wire tracing tool like a Fox'nHounds to locate wires. These tools can send a tone down a wire (single connection) and another part can detect the tone by induction. This makes it easy to locate internal breaks in wiring easily and/or verify the wire goes where you thought it did. T1 and T2 ring a bell, as I have been in there myself. A dvm set to indicate continuity audibly across T1 and T2 (with the plug out of the ce board) should go on/of/on/off as you rotate a back wheel. Check the wires in the spare wheel well first. I would be pretty confident the reed relay on the diff cover has not failed, the wiriing is much more likely.
My car had a speedo problem when I first got it - I lived in a HOT climate then - 120F summer peaks - and the speedo was dead for about 5-10mins after startup, then suddenly woke up. Since I brought the car back to a more moderate climate, the speedo has never missed a second. Must have been all the transport jostling?
jp 83 Euro S AT 52k
My car had a speedo problem when I first got it - I lived in a HOT climate then - 120F summer peaks - and the speedo was dead for about 5-10mins after startup, then suddenly woke up. Since I brought the car back to a more moderate climate, the speedo has never missed a second. Must have been all the transport jostling?
jp 83 Euro S AT 52k