Widow update....DEAD....AGAIN....yes this sucks!!!!
10-08-2009, 07:06 PM
#1
Race Director
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Widow update....DEAD....AGAIN....yes this sucks!!!!
Well this is my life 
......widow version 2.0 survived on track for a grand total of about an hour.....versus version 1.0 that lasted about 10 hours....
I went to the shop today as the oil pan was removed....far too much metal of all sorts everywhere..... oddly enough the rod bearings that died were the 4-8??? Which I find very odd? Even more odd was all of the other rod bearings looked great...brand new really.....it was NOT the windage tray causing the problem...yes two of the 4 trays took a slight impact from the counterweights, but just enough to barely take the anodizing off?
My inital thinking is something was not correct with the crank I used....it was a "taylor" drilled crank...but clearly it was not feeding oil to the 4-8 rod bearing....why??? Its not determined yet.... oil pressure was always good and it appears the main bearings are also fine....it does look like most of debris was caught in the filter and the filter was NOT clogged, so hopefully it was NOT bypassed.... the only debris we found was in the pan and filter.....
What to do next?????
I dunno ....I do have a spare 87 S4 motor and some misc parts....but don't even know if I want to continue with this highly frustrating project.....
So the way I see it is sell the whole damm thing....take the loss and move on....whole car with sharktuner and spare engine plus all extra parts.... which at this point is nearly $40k invested (ya right, more like flushed down the toilet).....but I'd be lucky to get 1/2 that back...
I dunno...I will think about it and consider my options during vacation next week....
......widow version 2.0 survived on track for a grand total of about an hour.....versus version 1.0 that lasted about 10 hours....I went to the shop today as the oil pan was removed....far too much metal of all sorts everywhere..... oddly enough the rod bearings that died were the 4-8??? Which I find very odd? Even more odd was all of the other rod bearings looked great...brand new really.....it was NOT the windage tray causing the problem...yes two of the 4 trays took a slight impact from the counterweights, but just enough to barely take the anodizing off?
My inital thinking is something was not correct with the crank I used....it was a "taylor" drilled crank...but clearly it was not feeding oil to the 4-8 rod bearing....why??? Its not determined yet.... oil pressure was always good and it appears the main bearings are also fine....it does look like most of debris was caught in the filter and the filter was NOT clogged, so hopefully it was NOT bypassed.... the only debris we found was in the pan and filter.....
What to do next?????
I dunno ....I do have a spare 87 S4 motor and some misc parts....but don't even know if I want to continue with this highly frustrating project..... So the way I see it is sell the whole damm thing....take the loss and move on....whole car with sharktuner and spare engine plus all extra parts.... which at this point is nearly $40k invested (ya right, more like flushed down the toilet).....but I'd be lucky to get 1/2 that back...
I dunno...I will think about it and consider my options during vacation next week....
10-08-2009, 07:32 PM
#4
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I am very sorry to hear this outcome Brian. 
My condolences. You didn't ask but here is what I would do. Absolutely Nothing!! Go on vacation and forget about the car. We are coming into winter and you have lots of time to make a decision. Revisit the options in a month and it will be clear what is best for you to do. The worst thing to do is make an emotional decision. If you want to track during the winter continue on with the Mazda.
"The following is my opinion only and I do not know who built this engine"
To me one hour before failure on a new motor is highly suspect of the build quality / procedure / parts or assembly technique. If you decide to rebuild, start over and strip it all the way down. Don't do a partial rebuild because the problem or results of the problem are probably still there some where. Lots of great talent in the bay area and most seem to be willing to help.
I feel for ya bro. Next glass of wine is on me.
My condolences. You didn't ask but here is what I would do. Absolutely Nothing!! Go on vacation and forget about the car. We are coming into winter and you have lots of time to make a decision. Revisit the options in a month and it will be clear what is best for you to do. The worst thing to do is make an emotional decision. If you want to track during the winter continue on with the Mazda."The following is my opinion only and I do not know who built this engine"
To me one hour before failure on a new motor is highly suspect of the build quality / procedure / parts or assembly technique. If you decide to rebuild, start over and strip it all the way down. Don't do a partial rebuild because the problem or results of the problem are probably still there some where. Lots of great talent in the bay area and most seem to be willing to help.
I feel for ya bro. Next glass of wine is on me.
10-08-2009, 07:33 PM
#5
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Damn, that really sucks. Those bearings look like 2/6 bearing when they go. Which would point to an oiling issue.
It wouldn't make sense to sell the car as it is now, but that's easy for me to say of course. Take some distance and time away, it'll come to you what todo.
Btw is the oil in the pan red ?
It wouldn't make sense to sell the car as it is now, but that's easy for me to say of course. Take some distance and time away, it'll come to you what todo.
Btw is the oil in the pan red ?
10-08-2009, 07:59 PM
#7
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Brian, sorry to see this & your frustration is justified. Hate to say it but it appears to be an assembly issue, something was out of spec or improperly done. Dumb question, but how long was the engine broken in? Take Tim's advice and fugghedaboutit for a little while.
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10-08-2009, 08:06 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
Brian
I am realy sorry to see this. I agree with Tim, great advise there. Go on vacation and do not decide on anything now while under emotion. Things will be clearer when you give it some time which you now have.
Again real sorry to hear this.
I am realy sorry to see this. I agree with Tim, great advise there. Go on vacation and do not decide on anything now while under emotion. Things will be clearer when you give it some time which you now have.
Again real sorry to hear this.
10-08-2009, 08:09 PM
#10
Nordschleife Master
I am sorry for this (yet another) setback.
Though I have to concure with the guys, whomever did the rebuild and assembly (which from other posts indicates it is NOT you), should be paying for the cost of that rebuild. By this I mean that you get ALL your money (labour, parts etc.) back.
And as to how much you have invested, can you really count labour you paid
Though I have to concure with the guys, whomever did the rebuild and assembly (which from other posts indicates it is NOT you), should be paying for the cost of that rebuild. By this I mean that you get ALL your money (labour, parts etc.) back.
And as to how much you have invested, can you really count labour you paid
10-08-2009, 08:17 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
A failure, even Amsoil couldnt prevent! 
Well Brian, this is heartbreaking for all of us to see you go through this frustration. The problem, is the variables. When ever I put a track car together, I only ran what I know works. STOCK! stock runs so well, and when changes were made, they were made by top guys that know the engines like greg brown, Todd back east or Marc T. Im sure the guy that built your engine is good, but does he know the 928 motor? could there be an issue with how the crank was drilled or installed that might have been an issue? Im asking, as I dont know, but I'm sure there are factors of how the crank is drilled that if done incorrectly or with the wrong design, you could short circuit the oiling paths and cause issues. you said that you had oil pressure issues, when hot?
Anyway, no need to blame now, as it has to come apart. take the advice, take a break and lets talk about it when the shock of the disaster is over.
BUMMMER!!!!!!! Hang in there. We are all counting on you to wave the 928 Widow racing flag again!!!
Mark
PS what was the magnetic stuff picked up in the oil filter?
what was the windage tray made from? aluminum?
how does the crank look at the 4-8 bearing. is it a loss too?
what kind of crank was it? S4 or older ?
Well Brian, this is heartbreaking for all of us to see you go through this frustration. The problem, is the variables. When ever I put a track car together, I only ran what I know works. STOCK! stock runs so well, and when changes were made, they were made by top guys that know the engines like greg brown, Todd back east or Marc T. Im sure the guy that built your engine is good, but does he know the 928 motor? could there be an issue with how the crank was drilled or installed that might have been an issue? Im asking, as I dont know, but I'm sure there are factors of how the crank is drilled that if done incorrectly or with the wrong design, you could short circuit the oiling paths and cause issues. you said that you had oil pressure issues, when hot?
Anyway, no need to blame now, as it has to come apart. take the advice, take a break and lets talk about it when the shock of the disaster is over.
BUMMMER!!!!!!! Hang in there. We are all counting on you to wave the 928 Widow racing flag again!!!
Mark
PS what was the magnetic stuff picked up in the oil filter?
what was the windage tray made from? aluminum?
how does the crank look at the 4-8 bearing. is it a loss too?
what kind of crank was it? S4 or older ?
Damn, that really sucks. Those bearings look like 2/6 bearing when they go. Which would point to an oiling issue.
It wouldn't make sense to sell the car as it is now, but that's easy for me to say of course. Take some distance and time away, it'll come to you what todo.
Btw is the oil in the pan red ?
It wouldn't make sense to sell the car as it is now, but that's easy for me to say of course. Take some distance and time away, it'll come to you what todo.
Btw is the oil in the pan red ?
10-08-2009, 08:56 PM
#14
Team Owner
i wonder if the oil way plug in the crank might have come out, Bummer on the engine
