lesman2001

I have acquired or should say rescued a 1986.5 Iris blue Automatic. She needed alot of love and my wife said I needed a project. I am replacing the upper rubber in the A arm bushing. The originals were trashed from age. I've read different things but can't seem to get the same answers from all the different posts so I will try to explain what I have come up against..

1. Got the front end disassymbled and replacing multiple items.. bearings, tie rods, lower ball joints, brakes rebuilt, brake hoses, etc.

2. Inspected the A arms, replacing upper boot, ball joint ok and tight, repacking.

3. A arm removed and tried to press out the bushing. Bushing seemed impossible to remove but it came out with alot of work and force. (it was in multiple pieces.) I used a press with supports to drive the rubber out. All is left is a metal sleeve that remained behind after cleaning the remaining rubber out.

4. Poly bushings (928 motorsports) were going to be the replacements but when pressed back in they seem like they will not allow the a arm support rod to fit correctly. They make the space between the two bushing too short and when pressed in fully the support rod stops are forced into the bushing 1/4 to 1/2 inch.

Here are my questions.

A. Does the metal sleeve need to be removed leaving just the bare aluminum?

B. Is there a difference in the clearances between the a arm bushing "eyes" between 1985 1987 (mine is that weird year 1986.5 . A arms changed size and the upper ball joint was not repairable anymore.) I know the overall distance from the back of the a arm to the front changed, but what about inside btween the bushings. The service manual shows that but nothing more.

C. Is there a difference in the bushing between those years? Any specs on tolerances to help match up what I need.

D. Are the poly bushings going to cause trouble later and should I just go back to the OEM bushings? I all ready have the poly ones.

E. What is the distance between the a arm bushing "eyes", inside to inside lenght for a 1986.5 model. Could I have possibly tweaked the a arm inward since the bushing were so hard to remove. I thought I had it supported but it was really tough to get them out. The two A arms are the same inside lenght minus a few millimeters and still seem square when measured out..

Any help would be welcomed

Mrmerlin

A...... yes use a hack saw and cut a slice in the metal sleeve.
Take the blade off the handle fit it through the open A arm hole and then refit it to the handle and carefully cut the sleeve
B...... the bushing should be the same
C....the poly bushings should fit tighter and reduce the amount of flex in the mounts
D.. you could try matching the A arms to each other for a measurment

jon928se

If you mean the steel sleeve that was the outside of the original rubber bushing, Yes it needs to be removed.New PU bushing don't have one by design.

You can't tell from PET as the upper A arms are only listed as a compete unit including thesteel bar that fastens them to the body.

See Steve (Sendarius) comments below - earlier ones seem to be smaller diameter. Internal diameter of A arm hole for the bushing on a 90 or 88 is 44mm dia.

Once installed correctly they should be OK but see my comments below.


I'll measure an installed Arm shortly (need top get wheels off) - 9 1/4" between inside faces of the ears.

Other comments

If you installed the PU bushings with the original outer steel part of the rubber bushings still inside the Alu A arm (Pretty bloody hard work) the PU bushing will get squeezed inwards too much and become lengthened.

The supplied washers (the pair between the bushings and the steel bar that fastens to the body) are in my opinion too small an outer diameter, after a 1000 miles or so the washers start to work their way into the bushing. I refitted my upper A arms with one Stainless steel fender washer with an OD of approx 50mm (2")

and on the other end a turned down SS fender washer with an OD of 43.5mm so it will go through the ear of the A arm. (Edit this may only apply to S4+)

RyanPerrella

Jon,

Can you comment on the upper a-arm bushing replacement in regards to driving feel? any thoughts, positive or negative?

If you had to do it again would you replace those bushings? I ask because they seem like a real pain.

sendarius

I can comment on the "Are there differences between years?" question, with a resounding YES.

I have in my possession a BEAUTIFUL set of poly bushes for the 928 A-arms (they look MUCH better than the ones currently available from the usual suppliers - sorry guys), BUT they do not fit my '88S4 as they are too small in diameter.

So, YES there is a difference between years, but in my tradition of being only sort of helpful, I have no idea when the change was made. Sorry.

PM me if you are interested in the bushes - I can send some pics, and you can have them for the cost of shipping (which won't be very much even from Oz).

jon928se

Difficult to make a valid comparison as I put bushings plus new Eibachs and Bilsteins on the 88SE at the same time as I put the bushings plus the CS springs and older Bilsitens on the 90GT. Plus I haven't had the chance to really drive the 90GT since - and I won't until I get the brakes sorted - [U]really[U] driving isn't an option with mushy brakes.

As far as it being a real pain to install after my third cars worth I can get the upper A arm off in about 30 minutes only removing the undertrays. I reckon to renew PU bushings with PU bushings would take me about 30 minutes per side - so about 3 hours work in total.

31-TL-ZS

I used the Dremel for the inner sleeve.

Landseer

I used a torch and press.

Landseer

I used a torch and press.

AO

I destroyed mine and ended up getting rebuilt ones from 928 Int'l.

tlsmith1999

Do you remove the inner steel rings for both the OEM bushings and the after market Poly ones?

linderpat

I didn't even bother, I just went straight to 928 Intl for mine

jon928se

If you mean the crush tube - yes the new poly bushings should come with a new crush tube that you press into the centre of the poly bushing after the bushing has been pressed into the A arm.

Crush tube is bonded to internal bore of the oem rubber bushing and is a loose fit in the internal bore of an uninstalled poly bushing. Called a "crush" tube because when you tighten the retaining nut the tube gets clamped between the Nut/washer and the shoulder on the bracket.

lesman2001

I would like to thank everyone for all the help and tips. I did have to remove the metal sleeves that were left behind and that was a feat unto itself to say the least. Once I got the procedure down it didn't take long to get the other 3 out. I am going to try to attach pictures since I'm sure someone else will have the same questions and I would like to give them a hand.

First I would like to answer a few comments. I would like thank you for the measurements on the inner eye to eye. I did not damage the a arm, mine is 9 1/4 also and still measures square. As for the getting the bushings into the eye with the metal sleeve not being removed.. with a 12 ton press, you can get just about anything through a hole, may not fit right as I found out, but it will go. A big hammer is great but with a 12 ton press you can really foul things up.. On removing the sleeve by cutting it, I just not sure where the steel would end and the aluminum begins. I can't see giving the a arm any cuts of any depth by accident. Alot of stress rides on these, literally..

1. Just in case someone does not know what the metal sleeve I was discussing is, here is a picture. I had problems finding a support that allowed enough grip on the a arm eye to support it but allow the metal lip to slip out of the eye. Tip : Here is another reason to keep those old parts around. The inner bearing race from the front wheel is just the right size using the large end with the tapper toward the metal sleeve lip. You can see the metal sleeve on the face of the eye. This is the sleeve that has to come out. The bearing race fits exactly over that lip and allows for you to start the removal.

2. A great tool from Harbour Freight. Tool number W83020. It is a bearing race and seal drive and its cheap. One of the drivers fit exactly in the eye with play and its aluminum (other year models may be different but they have other sizes in the kit). You can see the driver in the press and placed in the eye. Use the flat side that is for seals. Another picture shows the tool better. It fits and will not scar up the inner face. Make sure you press square on the tool.

3. After 20 some odd years, the metal to aluminum bond scoffed at 12 tons of pressure. I had to apply heat to the eye, not alot, but got it good and warm. The resulting pop will make you think you broke something but that means its just started to move. Keep apply more pressure at that point. It should keep popping and moving. The very last metal sleeve came out with no heat so this may vary. Either way the sleeve will come loose with pressure, if you use heat, keep the flame moving.

4. This picture shows the metal sleeve after it moved with a resounding pop and I pressed the metal sleeve all the way to the end of the bearing support and plate. The metal lip was curled up due to the tapper of the bearing face as it pressed toward the end. The metal sleeve will not press all the way out using the bearing but now I found a different deeper support that fit better to the eye since the diameter of the lip was reduce greatly and the support could get more of the face of the eye. Just applyed pressure again and it will creep out. On one I had to reapply heat to start it moving again.

5. Picture of the tool, the metal sleeve removed and the a arm. The corrusion that fell out was amazing. A new understanding of di-electirc properties and effects on metals. And who said science class wasn't interesting.

6. The other side of a arm and sleeve being removed. On the first side the press had enough clearance and lenght for the ram to fit through the upper eye to the lower. You can see this in the first pics. The only problem on this side is clearance due to the angle of the eye and arm . I had to use multiple plates staggered to give the angle enough clearance. The bag is to keep the ball joints clean that I repacked.

7. Here is the finished a arm. Factory fresh looking. A little fine wire brushing and cleaning of the inner eye and its ready for the bushing to be press in. I have no doubt that the poly bushing will fit correctly now that everything is prepped right. I have destroyed the first bushings by pressing them back out and now I await the new ones to arrive the next coupe of days. A not so cheap lesson but beats the cost of a new or used a arm.

thanks again.. I hope this helps someone else who runs up against this problem.

lesman2001

The bearing direction in step 1 is incorrect. Sorry about that. The bearing tapper is away from the sleeve lip. In other words, the larger tapper opening is placed on the eye with the smaller tapper end away from the eye. Anyone who tries this would see the proper direction, but I hate getting those replies.."you got the bearing direction wrong". So I'll be that guy..