If cost was not an issue which would you recommend? I know MoTec M48 is a faster processor but I just need fuel (batch fire) & ignition control. Is either module more reliable than the other? How about ease of tuning. I heard MoTec is so tunable it takes 10 hours+ to dial in.
Anyone has experience with either system please comment.
Thanks,
Tony

 

Really? You can't compare those two systems. One is the cheapest fuel injection controller you can build/buy. A Motec is pretty much top of the line in stand alone control. I've never worked with a megasquirt and I'm sure they do what they do very well for the money. I have worked with Motec, Haltech, 034, and Holley Projection. Motec is nice (and Holley is garbage).

 

Have you considered using a Autronic system (say the SMC or SM2)??
Just as good, if not better in some ways than the Motec (less expensive) and has an autotune feature.
Great resolution for the tinkerer and has heaps of features.

Glenn
'81 928
AU

 

http://www.vi-pec.com/

 

I am running a MSII fuel only on my 84 euro I do not think you can get more bang for the buck then with a MS unit. I have all the stuff to convert to EDIS-8 which when I do the ignition will be controlled by my MS ECU.

The MS is pretty easy to tune if you are going with a wideband lamda sensor.

 

IMHO, this is like comparing "open source" to "shrink wrap", a lot depends on what degree of professional support you desire.

For most hobbyists, Megasquirt as enough features with the latest releases, i.e boost control, boost offsets, etc. The MoTec will be much more refined in all aspects of the system, hence the higher cost and degree of support.

Given the amount of time involved with any custom engine / tuning development, I am planning MoTec for my own efforts as I really enjoy the refinements within the MoTec product line.... very cool stuff.

Purely my $0.02

 

I've got MS running on my track car. EDIS 8 system too. Runs great and gained about 30hp over stock LH/EZK with just one round of tuning. Bang for the buck MS is hard to beat, but I've seen some other custom solutions too (haltech)...and they look nice too.

I have heard that MS is hard to get going from scratch..but if it's running then tuning is just like all the rest. My system came off a 85/86 engined 928..and only required minor tweaks to optimize for the S4 engine. Even got the flappy to work and will eventually integrate the knock sensor. Colin is also doing a VEMS system on a GT and is using the VE tables I generated from the MS as a starting point for that system. ..

Lots of options out there..even electromotive that Carl is doing..

 

Tom I'd like to see your car
Lots of info in this thread. Thanks everyone.

So back to my original post, as far as reliability between the modules. Anyone ever had an ECM fail?

 

Not that I know anything about what I am writing here, but...

Do Autronic and MoTec etc. give access to the source code? One can modify the C source code for MS which lowers the hurdle of doing real custom stuff for many.

What's the hardware advantage, if any, of Autronic and MoTec models over HC9S12C64 / MC9S12C64MFA in MS2? The MS2 Motorola chip is 16 bit/24MHz

I don't know anything about MoTec or Autronic models, but I suspect that some custom projects would be easier with MS2. For example, suppose that one wants to use diesel VGT turbo with electronic wastegate actuator. Then, furthermore, one wants to set the turbine speed setpoint with a three-dimensional map based on throttle position, rpm, and gear. Maybe the canned stuff can do that, but it may be easier with MS2.

 

MS is nice for what it is, but you cannot compare the two. It's like bringing a rolled up newspaper to a gun fight.

No offense, but anyone who thinks this is untrue has never used Motec, Autronic, AEM etc....

Excellent suggestion, I may give this a try with my 79.

 

...so my MS was relatively easy to get going since I had previous maps to work with. It's easy to play with, and works really well even as a street driver. I gained about 30hp, got rid of of the distributors, and the MAF is gone too. Only thing I'm not running right now is knock detection, but that will happen soon, if I even need it (hope to go track only so I don't have to worry too much about lack of good fuel)

What can Motec give me on my NA track car that will be worth it? According to Colin, he figures it would be about $2000 for a complete MS install on a 928 (for him to do a fresh install for someone) and maybe another $500 to optimize on dyno time. I think MOTEC starts at like 4K with no tuning.

Perhaps someone that knows each system can give it's pluses and minuses (hopefully without degrading the other ones)..

 

ptuomov, I don't believe they allow you access to source. One could certainly reverse engineer it, but I doubt it would be worth much. The biggest advantage you get with any commercial EMS is the integration expertise. They do a lot in engineering an integrated set of products and accessories.

However, it would be very cool to see a group of folks iron out a base set of sensors and SW for the MegaSquirt. Given its open source nature, one could certainly develop a great set of base lines and post for community consumption.

 

Well...Colin has the maps for the 85/86 engine..and I've got them for the S4 engine. When I upgrade to bigger cams..I'll keep the original map and make a new one for the new cams..so those will be available..

If you want the maps for the MS and S4 engine..let me know..

 

I think its about 2k. Sequential inj/ign, multi-layer mapping for boost and other inputs, including NOZZZZ, but that is just the tip. It may be difficult to see the real capabilities on that site, but its the same unit as the Link G4 extreme, but with, what looks like, better support. I don't know.

 

Bang for buck MS is very difficult to be beat.

I have not used the MoTeC but while it might have great support my problem with it is that you buy the base unit at X $$$ then if you want more features you have to phone them and give them more money to unlock things that are already in there.

The thing that I dont like about MS is that it doesnt have dedicated knock control. If you are going this route and want knock control then you should get the J&S vampire unit that Louie runs. Also you must know how to solder and add things when you are using this system. To add COP or anything really you must open it and solder/unsolder componants. It does suffer from a lack out output channels too.
But the documentation for it is excellent and VERY in depth. The web forums respond to problems quick and it is open source coding so if you are bright enough you could add a circuit to do anything you want and make the code to run that circuit yourself.

I just installed VEMS on Pasa's 90 GT. It is a much nicer system for alot of aspects. It has dedicated and proper knock control. It also has a wideband controller built in, which means you dont need tech edge, or the LC1 or any of those other controllers. This makes the installation cleaner and ensures that there is no discrepancy between the LC1 output and the reading at the brain which is a HUGE plus. Now the documentation on how to configure things, like setting up the tempature settings is HORRID. It was needlessly complex and difficult to figure out with the vague instructions that would only make sence if you had previously done it. The forum can be slow to respond to real questions which means that if you are doing the install and get stumped, you could be waiting a little bit before you can get the needed help. However I then found out that they have a IRC channel dedicated to it and the support there was phenominal! I did run into a few snags on things such as they say that the board can support 8 +5V logic level outputs for COP units (4/5 pin units). I tried what they told me to do to get it to work and it didnt. I ended up going to the stepper control outputs which worked perfectly instantly! So running wasted spark which is no issue and just as good imo. I managed to get ahold of a local fellow who has done alot of installs of it on other cars and he had ran into the same problem and said that there was a couple of ways to fix it. And I will look into doing that and swapping back in the future. But for now it is setup and is much nicer for configurations over the MS system once the car is running.
Only downside is getting it to the running point can be extremely tricky.
If you do decide to do a VEMS installation then I would recommend that you have someone right there that has done at least one install before. I would also recommend that you get the IRC channel and get that setup and be watching the convos on there for a few weeks before you start.
The VEMS unit also has control for traction, boost, noz, alcohol injection, shift cut, injector staging, spark cut idle control, control to turn on the cooling fans, fuel pump, and control an electric WP! That is just scratching the surface of what the system can do right out of the box.

The one thing to mention about MS is that the wiring is VERY simple. With VEMS you have more wires than you know what to do with. There is 8 ign channels, 8 inj channels (which can drive 2 a piece), Cam sync, etc. To give you an idea the VEMS has 2 plugs, 1 has 18 pins, the other has 36, the MS has 1 connector and it has 37, but most of them are unused.

I have not played with alot of the other systems mainly due to the cost of the units as stated previously.

For my TT car I will most likely use VEMS just due to the amount of outputs which it has which you can use to control practically anything (like cruise control).