What can we do to help get Mark Kibort get back on the track again
09-08-2009, 06:48 PM
#46
Burning Brakes
Stan
Good sage advise as always.
I geuss what I am responding to here is the tone or moreover what could be the tone. Sure Brendan raises some valid points but comes off with a vindictive tone and knows it as he welcomes the negative responses to come. When it is decided what will become of the Holbert car then those are valid points to bring up, now is not the time have some respect for the loss alot of us are feeling.
The Holbert car and Mark racing it was about spirit, 928 spirit. We all loved seeing and hearing about Mark racing it and took great pride in 928 ownership. This is not about taking a 928 to the track and it getting wrecked. This represented that deep down feeling we all feel for our own 928 and because it was the Holbert car it added meaning every time Mark took it to the track. That is what living life is about.
To see a car sitting on display is like seeing a tiger stuffed on a mantle, its dead.
Seeing a 917K at Laguna Secca a few weeks ago on display was ok. But seeing it and hearing it on the track and to see it race is what it is all about. Even when Derek Bell hit it and left a big tire mark on it only gave it more life, and as I was talking to the mechanic at Canepa design who were taking care of the car, he said he would leave it as a tribute to the car. Sound familar to Marks run in with Derek Bell? it should as this is what these cars were built for.
So I thank mark for bringing back the Holbert car from a High School auto shop class and breathing life into it for all of us to enjoy up close and personal.
To me the lesson here is enjoy life and live it to its fullest anything else is just spinnin your wheels.
Good sage advise as always.
I geuss what I am responding to here is the tone or moreover what could be the tone. Sure Brendan raises some valid points but comes off with a vindictive tone and knows it as he welcomes the negative responses to come. When it is decided what will become of the Holbert car then those are valid points to bring up, now is not the time have some respect for the loss alot of us are feeling.
The Holbert car and Mark racing it was about spirit, 928 spirit. We all loved seeing and hearing about Mark racing it and took great pride in 928 ownership. This is not about taking a 928 to the track and it getting wrecked. This represented that deep down feeling we all feel for our own 928 and because it was the Holbert car it added meaning every time Mark took it to the track. That is what living life is about.
To see a car sitting on display is like seeing a tiger stuffed on a mantle, its dead.
Seeing a 917K at Laguna Secca a few weeks ago on display was ok. But seeing it and hearing it on the track and to see it race is what it is all about. Even when Derek Bell hit it and left a big tire mark on it only gave it more life, and as I was talking to the mechanic at Canepa design who were taking care of the car, he said he would leave it as a tribute to the car. Sound familar to Marks run in with Derek Bell? it should as this is what these cars were built for.
So I thank mark for bringing back the Holbert car from a High School auto shop class and breathing life into it for all of us to enjoy up close and personal.
To me the lesson here is enjoy life and live it to its fullest anything else is just spinnin your wheels.
09-08-2009, 07:04 PM
#47
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I understand some of the complaints, and I expressed some of them myself. Both about the potential loss of the Holbert car in a crash, and the lack of tuning time on the new engine. But the bottom line is that the 928 community likes to see a 928 out there on the track winning races. That's why people contribute. If Mark Anderson wanted or needed financial assistance to keep racing his car, I think you'd see the same outpouring of support.
09-08-2009, 07:26 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
I dont think there was any expectation that the engine rebuild would create a challenger to Mark and Joeseph. We all know it would at least, require head work, cams and CF intake, but many who emailed, PM'ed and publically communitcated with me, knew that this would be a toned down version that would match the chassis capability. As it was, it made the same HP as most any other stroker and stock top end before it. I my opinion, and those of many others, the car is running incredible and safe. Did you not see the way the holbert car and new engine was able to actually pull on the monster camaro, after it was walking away from me with the old stock bottomend? My main goal was the safety of the engine, to run to redline and keep it there for long periods of time month after month for several years of hard racing. In my opinion, and those of many others, mission accomplished. I set the cams where they made the most sense after help from the list, and made sure I took the "fat "road with fuel, which I did and verified on the dyno several times. We even attemped to shark tune it, but it lacked some basic connections, so that didnt happen. 10-15hp wouldnt have made a bit of difference in my season, but to have a car that stood up to some very expensive cars, was what most of its followers were looking to see.
I never can hear enough compliments about how it sounds. trust me, when you get guys that have seen it all, saying that the 928 has some of the best sound they have ever heard and that you were running well, so much so that they give you the coveted "Driver of the Weekend Award" over 250 drivers that weekend in ALL classes, you know you have, and have done, something special. Im thankful for having the opportunity to have driven the car in a way that it was meant to be driven. Its a sad loss, but these things happen. Unfortunately, it got taken out in a way, not expected by my wildest car nightmares. Fortunately, it probably saved my life or serious injury. Its not person, but we do like cars, and this one was quite special and will be missed by more than just me.
I never can hear enough compliments about how it sounds. trust me, when you get guys that have seen it all, saying that the 928 has some of the best sound they have ever heard and that you were running well, so much so that they give you the coveted "Driver of the Weekend Award" over 250 drivers that weekend in ALL classes, you know you have, and have done, something special. Im thankful for having the opportunity to have driven the car in a way that it was meant to be driven. Its a sad loss, but these things happen. Unfortunately, it got taken out in a way, not expected by my wildest car nightmares. Fortunately, it probably saved my life or serious injury. Its not person, but we do like cars, and this one was quite special and will be missed by more than just me.
I understand some of the complaints, and I expressed some of them myself. Both about the potential loss of the Holbert car in a crash, and the lack of tuning time on the new engine. But the bottom line is that the 928 community likes to see a 928 out there on the track winning races. That's why people contribute. If Mark Anderson wanted or needed financial assistance to keep racing his car, I think you'd see the same outpouring of support.
09-08-2009, 07:28 PM
#49
Race Director
Fellas, the main thing here is that Mark is able to carry on.
I see a few different sides here and would only like to add that words spoken can cut like a knife and leave a big scar.
Be careful how you use your words, they have have a nasty habit of returning from whence they came...
Though there are pros and cons to each viewpoint, I still think that we all benefit by having someone taking the chances and showing up to put this machine in the spotlight..
Some can assist financially and others with parts donations and still others with good wishes and being side line spectators.
That said, I think it behooves all of us to find the greater good in every step we take as an individual.
As we travel our path`s we all must learn our own lessons, and everyone that crosses our path is here to teach us something, in the end it will be for our good, but it may not at the time seem to be forwarding us.
So I ask, keep a good thought for all of the people on your path, for there will be a time when the unexpected will happen and your seemingly impossible good will come to pass.......
Strive to make someone happy and they will tell 2 of their friends
Be mean to someone and they will tell 10.............
The bigger the voice of contention that you have on your path the bigger the lesson, so pay attention........
Peace, Out........ Stan
I see a few different sides here and would only like to add that words spoken can cut like a knife and leave a big scar.
Be careful how you use your words, they have have a nasty habit of returning from whence they came...
Though there are pros and cons to each viewpoint, I still think that we all benefit by having someone taking the chances and showing up to put this machine in the spotlight..
Some can assist financially and others with parts donations and still others with good wishes and being side line spectators.
That said, I think it behooves all of us to find the greater good in every step we take as an individual.
As we travel our path`s we all must learn our own lessons, and everyone that crosses our path is here to teach us something, in the end it will be for our good, but it may not at the time seem to be forwarding us.
So I ask, keep a good thought for all of the people on your path, for there will be a time when the unexpected will happen and your seemingly impossible good will come to pass.......
Strive to make someone happy and they will tell 2 of their friends
Be mean to someone and they will tell 10.............
The bigger the voice of contention that you have on your path the bigger the lesson, so pay attention........
Peace, Out........ Stan
Well said
Bottom line is the "holbert" 928 belongs to Mark.....Mark chose to race it and tune it as HE saw fit...afterall it is HIS car, just like how the rest of us make decisions on how to drive our own 928's.....sure people "donated" $$$ to help MK get a new engine.....but it still IS his 928 to do with as he likes.....if he decided to drive it off a cliff.....or just park it for a while.....thats his decision to make....
Clearly I am one of MK biggest supporters....Yes MK did some things to his race 928 that I may or may not have done to my 928.....but the bottom line is he is out there 12+ times a year racing his 928......allowing the bulk of us to live vicariously through him.....watching the success that both Marks have had with their "inexpensive" race 928's (vs the cost of the competitors they race agianst) is a large factor in my acquiring a race 928.....and I greatly appreciate the input both Marks have given in me in getting my race 928 up to speed!
09-08-2009, 08:21 PM
#50
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I have to agree with Brian (Iceman) - I have spent a lot of money and time building my supercharged track car, but I made a conscious decision not to build it to "race" - rather, I go out and run times to improve my skills, but stay far away from any actual racing - because I know from my family history (McAfee Racing) that accidents can happen, not because some of the cars are slower, or faster, but because thats racing. The bottom line is that Mark did what many of us, including me, could not, or would not, do - that is, try racing with the "big boys" on no budget. The fact that he used a "special car" was his decision; it could have been wrecked while being transported to a museum; instead, it built a history with Mark and gave the 928 community something to be proud of. I am glad you are physically OK, Mark, and hope you will get back in the saddle with another 928. I chose not to race, so I race 928's through people like you and Mark and Brian and others who put their cars, lives, money and families, on the line every time they go out there. It's rather simply; those who want to help, will; those who don't won't. Freedom of choice and freedom to bitch about those whose choices are not consistent with ours. Keep racing, Mark...I'll keep building by track car to never race - and hope I can continue to read about your and the other 928 racers' exploits.
09-08-2009, 08:36 PM
#51
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IMHO, cars have a sort of soul, especailly 928's. That car lived the life most 928's dream of and it died on the track like a warrior. I fully support Mark's decision to race the Holbert car. The in-car videos he made are something we will all be able to enjoy for years to come. Hopefully he will be back on the track soon, in "Kermit" or "The Ingram GT" if that's what it takes.
09-08-2009, 09:30 PM
#52
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Just to be clear, I was trying to say that regardless of how Mark handled his engine, and his racing, the 928 community supported his efforts in getting a 928 out on the track. And I think this community would support any of the amateur racers on this forum. We like seeing our old cars out there kicking butt on the newer cars out there. And that if the same thing happened to Mark Anderson, we'd all offer the same support if he asked for help getting back up and running. The thing some people seem to be complaining about, is the fact that none of the other amateur racers ask the community for help. But I bet if they did, people would come through... Besides, you still can choose to help or not to help. But I think if someone else was saying they could really use some help to get their car running again, many of the people on this forum would come to their assistance. Because they love these cars!
09-08-2009, 10:10 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
Lol, I don't ask for charity I just ask that people buy parts off me so I may buy another 928 and people lowball me with $200 offers for my lsd tranny 
It's kind of sad the car is destroyed, but it's not our car so we can't complain if it can be fixed I'll donate to it it's a special part of 928 history
It's kind of sad the car is destroyed, but it's not our car so we can't complain if it can be fixed I'll donate to it it's a special part of 928 history
09-09-2009, 05:54 AM
#55
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Mark: Don't let some harsh words discourage you. You provided us with years of great entertainment and pride in how you represented the 928 on the tracks.
You are known way beyond the borders of the US; even people on other continents consider you a 928-Superstar. That would not be the case, if you were sitting in a garage trying forever to engineer that mysterious "perfect" leprechaun-928.
I've been here on rennlist for about 9 years now, and have yet to see "the other guy" complete a car that we can see running and driving.
The Holbert car, on the other hand, was always real, and will live on in many memories, pictures, and videos - even if it is not brought back to life with its current chassis.
While we may not always agree with you, and cannot buy you a new race car, many of us can and want to help a little here and there, so the "show" can go on. See yourself as a 928-promoter and entertainer, and get back on your stage - the track!
Most of all, we are glad you escaped without major injury - despite skipping the HANS device (Please don't ever push your luck like that again!
)
You are known way beyond the borders of the US; even people on other continents consider you a 928-Superstar. That would not be the case, if you were sitting in a garage trying forever to engineer that mysterious "perfect" leprechaun-928.
I've been here on rennlist for about 9 years now, and have yet to see "the other guy" complete a car that we can see running and driving.
The Holbert car, on the other hand, was always real, and will live on in many memories, pictures, and videos - even if it is not brought back to life with its current chassis.
While we may not always agree with you, and cannot buy you a new race car, many of us can and want to help a little here and there, so the "show" can go on. See yourself as a 928-promoter and entertainer, and get back on your stage - the track!
Most of all, we are glad you escaped without major injury - despite skipping the HANS device (Please don't ever push your luck like that again!
)
09-09-2009, 09:59 AM
#56
I think that Brendan is within his rights and certainly it is a valid point probably not put in the nicest way though and I must admit I don't know if there is any bad blood between them. I also feel from reading the various threads that a certain amount of people most likely the minority don't appreciate it has been so banged up.
I believe the option that will/would make everyone happy is to sell the car how it is with the original engine and use those funds to buy another track project. That way MK can get back to racing with the Rennlist motor and someone can restore the Holbert car back to its original glory. Everyone wins.
Greg
I believe the option that will/would make everyone happy is to sell the car how it is with the original engine and use those funds to buy another track project. That way MK can get back to racing with the Rennlist motor and someone can restore the Holbert car back to its original glory. Everyone wins.
Greg
09-09-2009, 02:21 PM
#57
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I think you should get your own **** mark. Thats all. Everyone else does. The "holbert Car" is done now. The free 8k motor may even be done. ( and to be clear, I never sent any money to Erik for you, nor would I now) And its not a sponsorship Mark - its a Charity - for you - personally, to race as you hobby. You don't make money doing it, and if/when you win, rennlist does not get more TV time to make more money for anybody, but possibly IB gets more users. Maybe.
All I am saying is that you are on your own now. Anything else you get is charity for you - an amateur racer who doesn't even treat the stuff that you do get through charity that well (not talking about the crash).
It just seems weird and freaky to me that you will take charity to run your hobby.
Its just... weird. YOU crashed the car, though it may not have started in your court. It is now.
You want to race as an amatuer? Fine - but foot your own bills. ALL of them.
Will this sentiment make me look like an ***? Sure. Do I give a ****? nope. I think I will post this on the 928 forum so I can let everyone else over there on my thoughts as well.
Have at it.
All I am saying is that you are on your own now. Anything else you get is charity for you - an amateur racer who doesn't even treat the stuff that you do get through charity that well (not talking about the crash).
It just seems weird and freaky to me that you will take charity to run your hobby.
Its just... weird. YOU crashed the car, though it may not have started in your court. It is now.
You want to race as an amatuer? Fine - but foot your own bills. ALL of them.
Will this sentiment make me look like an ***? Sure. Do I give a ****? nope. I think I will post this on the 928 forum so I can let everyone else over there on my thoughts as well.
Have at it.
09-09-2009, 02:29 PM
#58
Administrator - "Tyson"
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I believe the option that will/would make everyone happy is to sell the car how it is with the original engine and use those funds to buy another track project. That way MK can get back to racing with the Rennlist motor and someone can restore the Holbert car back to its original glory. Everyone wins.
If I had the funds I would put in a bid for what's left of the Holbert car.
09-09-2009, 03:13 PM
#59
Three Wheelin'
Greg,
I am afraid that Brendan does bring up a very valid point.
Could he have worded it better, sure. But we all have been guilty of saying something poorly throughout our lives.
Though I do agree with his points. When anyone else takes their car to the track (DE or Racing) and ends up writing it off none expect to be gotten back up by everyone on the list. While MK might not expect it. If this had happened to me I would not accept anyones money, or charity. I might accept the tub from MA, but you can bet I would feel abliged to pay him at least something for it.
I thought the stroker motor he got to help him be competative was a very nice jesture by the community. But I again agree with Brendan's comments with regards to that. He should have gotten it shark tuned and done a few other things to it before really running it. He refused to do this and it is a testiment to Todd's building ability that the engine didnt blow up.
I for one hope that MK does not have any lasting injuries and heals quickly. But I do not feel sorry for him in the slightest. You can ask anyone who races professionally and they will all tell you, you may have not had that big crash yet, but you will. Everyone does and it is mearly a matter of time before it happens when you are driving at the limit. All one can do is hope that it doesnt injure them too much, or take their life. We all know this, and we take the risk ourselves knowing this in the back of our head.
Again I wish MK the best and hope he heals up quick.
I am afraid that Brendan does bring up a very valid point.
Could he have worded it better, sure. But we all have been guilty of saying something poorly throughout our lives.
Though I do agree with his points. When anyone else takes their car to the track (DE or Racing) and ends up writing it off none expect to be gotten back up by everyone on the list. While MK might not expect it. If this had happened to me I would not accept anyones money, or charity. I might accept the tub from MA, but you can bet I would feel abliged to pay him at least something for it.
I thought the stroker motor he got to help him be competative was a very nice jesture by the community. But I again agree with Brendan's comments with regards to that. He should have gotten it shark tuned and done a few other things to it before really running it. He refused to do this and it is a testiment to Todd's building ability that the engine didnt blow up.
I for one hope that MK does not have any lasting injuries and heals quickly. But I do not feel sorry for him in the slightest. You can ask anyone who races professionally and they will all tell you, you may have not had that big crash yet, but you will. Everyone does and it is mearly a matter of time before it happens when you are driving at the limit. All one can do is hope that it doesnt injure them too much, or take their life. We all know this, and we take the risk ourselves knowing this in the back of our head.
Again I wish MK the best and hope he heals up quick.
Now, how many money we donate in a new car .. doesn't count . Mark can wreck it again within 1 lap . Just as any other member. Just as any other racer. Pitty.Pitty for Mark, Pitty for all of us .
09-09-2009, 03:23 PM
#60
Nordschleife Master
