928cs

We were racing with you by spirit.
We are still with you to find a way to race a 928 again.

hacker-pschorr

If that's the case, I blame Andrew

mark kibort

Thanks Dave! Much appreciated.

And dont worry, i put aside the cross brace to send back to you. It broke in two, and want to see if i can get a warranty repair!

BC

I think you should get your own **** mark. Thats all. Everyone else does. The "holbert Car" is done now. The free 8k motor may even be done. ( and to be clear, I never sent any money to Erik for you, nor would I now) And its not a sponsorship Mark - its a Charity - for you - personally, to race as you hobby. You don't make money doing it, and if/when you win, rennlist does not get more TV time to make more money for anybody, but possibly IB gets more users. Maybe.

All I am saying is that you are on your own now. Anything else you get is charity for you - an amateur racer who doesn't even treat the stuff that you do get through charity that well (not talking about the crash).

It just seems weird and freaky to me that you will take charity to run your hobby.

Its just... weird. YOU crashed the car, though it may not have started in your court. It is now.

You want to race as an amatuer? Fine - but foot your own bills. ALL of them.

Will this sentiment make me look like an ***? Sure. Do I give a ****? nope. I think I will post this on the 928 forum so I can let everyone else over there on my thoughts as well.

Have at it.

DonT

Mark - glad you appear to be OK. Sorry about the car.

I donated to the engine build, I'll pass on this project...

Don T

Mako 928

Nice, kick a man when he is down. How long have you been waiting for this to happen so you can get your dig into Mark.
You obviously have a lot of resentment other wise you would have worded it differently.
I used to have respect for you with all of the work you have done on your project but your true spirit continues to show through.
And you do give a **** otherwise you would not be here and post.

Brendan on ignore.

DR

Mark,

THANKS! If you can, sign it for me!

After all these years of you racing with it I was surprised you hadn't broken it yet. BUT this is for sure NOT how I wanted you to finally crack that sucker!!

Keep your chin up, and remember all the great times you have had with that 928. I would bet you have had more smiles per miles in that beast than most people will in their whole lifetime!

Dave

Lizard928

Greg,
I am afraid that Brendan does bring up a very valid point.
Could he have worded it better, sure. But we all have been guilty of saying something poorly throughout our lives.

Though I do agree with his points. When anyone else takes their car to the track (DE or Racing) and ends up writing it off none expect to be gotten back up by everyone on the list. While MK might not expect it. If this had happened to me I would not accept anyones money, or charity. I might accept the tub from MA, but you can bet I would feel abliged to pay him at least something for it.

I thought the stroker motor he got to help him be competative was a very nice jesture by the community. But I again agree with Brendan's comments with regards to that. He should have gotten it shark tuned and done a few other things to it before really running it. He refused to do this and it is a testiment to Todd's building ability that the engine didnt blow up.

I for one hope that MK does not have any lasting injuries and heals quickly. But I do not feel sorry for him in the slightest. You can ask anyone who races professionally and they will all tell you, you may have not had that big crash yet, but you will. Everyone does and it is mearly a matter of time before it happens when you are driving at the limit. All one can do is hope that it doesnt injure them too much, or take their life. We all know this, and we take the risk ourselves knowing this in the back of our head.

Again I wish MK the best and hope he heals up quick.

mark kibort

Colin and Brendan,

While you may have not seen any value in keeping this car racing, or improving it to make more of a statement in the racing community, some did. Thats there business. Should I have told scot to build his own engine if he wants to race a 928? No, he didnt have the money for a rebuild and he was way in the back of the pack. Im a 928 fan and wanted Scot who converted from his 911 to a 928 to give a better showing of the car's potential. I didnt have any money to give him , but my time is valuable, so I gave that, and A LOT of it! I ended up putting an engine in his car 4 times, and built 2 of them from scratch.
Charity? hardlly. Help to someone that needs it to help our 928 racing efforts.
People on this list have been incredibly generous with helping my racing efforts over the years. The engine build was complete surprise. certainly, I didnt ask for it. If I wanted to, I could have done it without the lists help, and I would have had a motor that might have been near as good, but not as durable and well designed. As for not treating the engine properly to YOUR standards, thats complete BS . Does greg brown tune his engines with motec or sharktune? NO, he makes sure the fuel is correct and sends it on its way. THATS exactly what I did. Sure, i could have eeked out more power with head work, and shark tune, but the goal for the motor was right where it was. Remember, and this is a key point, you get more power, you need to handle the torque and Im not in a position to build up the chassis, transmission, suspension to make the holbert car a contender for Joe and Mark. Its a ITE SCCA racer , running on DOTs . Did I do it right? Lets see, 2nd currently in the championship points against literally near 1 milliondollars worth of cars and teams working to win. Not bad for the little 928, and certainly a testimate to the old 928 with some tweaking that it can hang.
Brendan, your attitude is very similar to your advice on the heads in bending the gasket. Good intentions, wrong approach, misinformation. Remember that?? You seriously need to review why you are even posting. If you dont want to help, or just think that my racing a 928 is just a hobby effort, then dont post and dont help. There are those that want to be a part of the racing of an historic 928. Does anyone make any money at it? probably not. Does anyone expect to? No.
So,why do they help. why does anyone help? They are obviously getting something out of it, so why do you care.
This has been a tough few days, because of the fact that it is a Rennlist 928 list sponsored historic 928 with a little more than sentimental value to me and others.

I saw Greg and Paul at the track and they were extremely support of. Greg talked to me right afterwards and told me some things that really helped get through this. A true gentleman. I have never seen such concern by all the drivers I race with in ITE SCCA, along with cornerworkers. It was like a funeral for a lost friend. Not only for me, but for the car that a lot of people have come to know and appreciate. I've been getting callls and visits to my house for the last 2 days, from from friends and neighbors that heard or saw the car. It has really been amazing how many folks really care.

Now, you may just think the car is a car and my racing is just a hobby, but to me an others, its a little more than that. Thats it. You dont like it, talk about something you do like. Thats all.

and by the way Brendan, the gasket is not leaking from the slightly bent tabs nor did i use spray on the block surface, and the surface quality of the heads was beyond spec. In the end, there has been ZERO problems with the engine, with no oil cooler, no baffles, no shark tune, no breather system, no bigger radiator, only a drilled crank and Amsoil! That's 30 race days to date on the new engine, and 105 race days on the bone stock holbert engine

BC

I am on ignore I guess, so you won't see this. But... there is no resentment.

"My true spirit" is that of personal responsibility, pride, proper thinking, and intelligence. I hold everyone to the same standards. I have an opinion on this issue as a whole, from the first crash he had (IIRC) that put him on the trail of the holbert car, to the constant suggestions of people respectfully disagreeing with him about some of his decisions on maintenance for the car (it was his car, he could do as he chose), through the idea of paying for a new engine for him, and him, as I said at the time, poo-pooing the ideas of many to properly prepare the environment of the car for this charity engine, as well as proper tuning which Colin brought up.

I post this here and in the racing forum as an "FYI" for the people reading and posting if it was not originally known to them. Were people paying for the dream of a competitive 928? There is one - its the racer that MA uses on a regular basis. He pays for it through the profits of his business. He has had racing incidents - did anybody pay for his stuff? I don't think so.

Its an ongoing thing starting mostly for when I saw what happened with the engine that Tim and Todd and Erik organized/helped fund (with many others) and assembled.

Its a simple thought - once you take Charity, the perception inherently changes for those who gave and SHOULD change for those who have taken.

IcemanG17

well I guess it only took 1 day for this thread to deteriorate....I was pleasantly surprised at the positive comments early on.....but I knew this was bound to happen....

BC

Thats correct. Its their business. Its thier business because once you take charity from them, it is fully their business as to how you purport yourself and the way you operate. I don't quite think you have that in your head yet.

Yes, they have. Why is that?

Yes. Not asking doesn't mean its not charity. You could have done just fine without? Okay. Why don't you go about doing that now.

I will not speak for him. I suggest you don't either. It wasn't MY standards we were discussing. They were very basic where-with-all standards. When you take charity on, what you also take on is theresponsibility to "do right by those who give" - if you don't, then next time don't take charity.

Nah. You can't see or feel attitude in non-prose online posts. Anything you DO see, you see from projections of your own thoughts, not the thoughts of the author. There is no misinformation in what I posted about the head gasket, and there is none now - you did it wrong, and that has nothing to do with whether "it worked" or not. The ordeal represents a larger notion of how things are done around you, with (as greg likes to say) "Drywall screws and glue" Its a symbol, not an actuality.

I know why I am posting and have communicated it clearly, with no il will or mal-content. You are posting as the "gracious receiver"

Dude, clearly you are confused. What you are doing is a hobby effort. If you are not getting paid, its a hobby, see?

What do they care about mark? You have attached yourself as the official racer of the legend. The Legend is now dead. What will you attach yourself to now to keep this up?


I of ALL people here am not one that thinks a car is just a car. I breath, sleep, think, and talk more about the automotive world that you can even fathom in your short-circuited psuedo-analytical brain. YOU are a Hobbyist. IF you think you are more than that, then you have increased the size of your ego past where I originally thought it blew up to.
THE CAR was more than that, YOU are the hobbyist that got ahold of a semi-legend in this community and in my mind you milk it for EVERYTHING it can be squeezed for. NOT ASKING does not mean you didn't TAKE. Lets all be clear on that.



Honestly, I don't think you want to spar on details with me, but that's fine if you do. Again, the fact that it was not leaking did NOT and DOES NOT mean you did it the proper way.
Seriously, the way you congratulate yourself, and pat yourself on the back about doing things in the bare minimum wickie-up way, is really just strange. And the oil thing - Jesus.

BC

I'm done Brian. Seriously. This is about when his posts blow up to about three pages on their own. See: Gearing.
I'm sorry that you feel my comments are deleterious.

Everyone can go back to congratulating him for stuffing the car and charity engine into the wall so well without the proper restraints and surviving, and talking about how he can continue to be the charity-case 928 racer of our community because... Because... Because why?

Tim Murphy

Brendan, knock it off.

MK, don't even go there.

Mrmerlin

If you came by this thread please take a minute to read these words, they will assist you on your path, I promise !
They work for everybody.

Fellas, the main thing here is that Mark is able to carry on.

I see a few different sides here and would only like to add that words spoken can cut like a knife and leave a big scar.
Be careful how you use your words, they have have a nasty habit of returning from whence they came...

Though there are pros and cons to each viewpoint, I still think that we all benefit by having someone taking the chances and showing up to put this machine in the spotlight..

Some can assist financially and others with parts donations and still others with good wishes and being side line spectators.

That said, I think it behooves all of us to find the greater good in every step we take as an individual.

As we travel our path`s we all must learn our own lessons, and everyone that crosses our path is here to teach us something, in the end it will be for our good, but it may not at the time seem to be forwarding us.

So I ask, keep a good thought for all of the people on your path, for there will be a time when the unexpected will happen and your seemingly impossible good will come to pass.......
Strive to make someone happy and they will tell 2 of their friends
Be mean to someone and they will tell 10.............

The bigger the voice of contention that you have on your path the bigger the lesson, so pay attention........
Peace, Out........ Stan