PorKen

I'll replace an entire system - but I won't drill holes, or cut wires. Them's the rules.

Mongo

WOOPS

No wonder why soldering instead of splicing worked for my ISV harness.

bd0nalds0n

The ST is powered by the 12-pin diagnostic plug, and I have the LM-1 hooked directly to the battery.

I tried hooking up the LH to the NB-emulator of the WB02/LM1. Runs great when autotuning, but goes VERY lean when I turn off autotune.

There seems to be no doubt (or at least growing evidence) that the WB02 is giving a false (rich) signal to the ST.

But I'm not sure why the car would run fine in autotune, but then go lean when switched to closed loop, when it's the same o2 sensor (the wideband)?

I brought in my LM1 and will reconfirm that the output is set per John's instructions, and I'll do another free air calibration tonight or tomorrow.

Should the LM1 be grounded elsewhere?

Mongo

Defective WBO2????

danglerb

Bosch 17014 is the wb, used on a number of cars and cheap if you search for this part number.

hacker-pschorr

May car came with a one wire O2, I added a three. Didn't really have a choice

worf928

Brian, maybe I missed it and you already described it... but, can you describe physically where the two o2 sensors are mounted relative to the exhaust? Is it one on one side of an x-pipe and one on the other? Or something different?

Bill Ball

Tony: I have had oddball problems when I did not disable O2 adaptation while tuning manually. Parts of the map can end up fighting each other due to O2 adaptation changing over the various tuning sessions. So, it seems to me it should be routine to disable the adaptation for all tuning, not just autotune (where it is automatically disabled). Also, recently I had problems with injector sizing adjustments above a certain point. I have 30 lb'ers. While trying to get rid of some richness, I started to increment to injector size. Everything was fine until I got to 31.6 at which point the car went super lean and died, whereas at 31.4 it was still rich.

Anyway, turn off O2 adaptation. You will have to retune parts of the map but it eliminates a variable.

Brian, you might try that too. I've been driving for weeks with it off and my tuning now makes more sense. For a while apparently I had the idle inadvertently tuned too lean and the O2 adaptation compensated for that error but in the process, since this correction gets applied to whole map, it made WOT too rich. Every time I reset the O2 adaptation the car would not start easily and when it did, it was way lean until the adaptation took place. So, I redid the tune with O2 adaptation off and just left it off. Your problem sounds more severe than that, but I think disabling O2 adaptation completely during tuning will simplify things.

bd0nalds0n

Thanks for the advice, Bill, I'll give it a try.

Dave, I have an Ott-style X pipe that I got from Dave Lomas. The bungs are welded at 9/3 o'clock, depending on your orientation. The NB is on the driver's side, the WB is on the passenger side.

I reset the calibration on the WB again last night, but forgot to free air calibrate it before I started the car this AM. So I had the WB powered up to prevent damage, but the readings were outside the range of the processor because the calibration wasn't done correctly. I'll try again, again, tonight.

The car seems to drive reasonably well based on the previous, incomplete tune. I've got a few stumbles and lumpyness, mostly at low RPMs and medium load (climbing a hill at 1100 RPMs sort of thing), or right at off-idle. During cruise and idle, the NB gauge is within the range it's historically been.

What have people been doing to autotune at high RPMs under heavy loads? It's pretty scary to enter an untuned cell on autotune and have the several seconds of jerking, etc at lower RPMs/lower loads and I was reluctant to tune further up on the RPM/load scale for fear of the jerking/knocking at higher speeds.

bd0nalds0n

One more thing: The biggest current complaint I have about my tune is the transition just off-idle. There's a bit of a dead spot/lag, and then a jerk as the car takes off.

From those more experienced--is there a general cause? I will check to see whether I have the "shut off injectors in decel" box checked (or unchecked). But I was wondering if it's better to try to solve the problem by tinkering with ignition timing on Decel or coming off idle, or whether it's a fuelling issue better resolved by manually tinkering with the cells adjacent to the idle cells.

Also: I had my car converted to a 5speed, but the ST still reads it as an auto. Does this matter?

John Speake

When you have the A/F ratio corectly tuned at idle and cruise, you shouldn't have a problem with any stumble, but there are the "Acceleration Enrichment " parameters on the LH Parameters screen to play with.

A badly aged MAF will also give the same effect of a hickup, as the LH senses a sudden increase in MAF voltage, goes open loop, and then the fuelling is critically dependant on MAF calibration.

It's good to see other expert users chiming into threads like this to increase the pool of ST knowledge, thanks to everpone who contributes :-)

worf928

And both sensors are between the engine and the "X" part of the x-pipe, yes? And you have the stock exhaust manifold.

So, the WB is reading the right bank of cylinders, and the NB from the left bank of cylinders.

Your original issue, if I'm not mistaken, was the there was a consistent difference between the NB and the WB.

You need to do what Dan suggested and swap the sensors side-to-side and see if the problem is the sensors or if they are actually telling you something important: like maybe that you have a intake leak on one side or the other.

bd0nalds0n

Good idea re: switching sides to check for inconsistencies. I'll check that out. I have a very stable idle, so I think an intake leak is unlikely. I did have the intake off and apart and recently resealed, so I know it's much better than it was.

John, I haven't replaced the MAF since I've owned the car (2003? 2004?), but the hiccup I noticed began when I moved to 42lb injectors from 30lb injectors/85-86 FPR/BEGI RRFPR. I didn't have this problem coming off idle with the prior fueling combination. Unless the 42lb injectors manifest the spike more acutely than the 30lb injectors at low fuel pressure would've. I.e., that the 42 lb injectors at stock s4 pressure react more quickly or strongly than the 30lb injectors did, thus creating symptoms that existed previously, but were masked.

John Speake

There's no reason that there should be a stumble attributable to the change to 42#. Louie can test the calibration of youyr MAF, if you want to check that out. Playing with the enrichment parameters has the potential to somewhat mask a weak MAF.

But sort out the fuelling before experimenting with those.

Bill Ball

I've not had problems with just off idle transition EXCEPT when I inadvertently had the NB emulation mis-wired so the LH was running open loop for a year until I discovered and corrected this. The LH was getting no O2 signal.

Anyway, if it's a fuel related issue, as mine was, you should see something like a lean spot in the WB AFR reading, although I gather you are suspecting some problem with WB vs. NB. Mine went extremely lean and hesitated. Also, my experience is that even when the fuel tuning is way off, the car still runs smoothly - it just lacks power at the lean or rich points, creating a stumble, but nothing very jerky.

I don't think that decel setting would affect coming off idle from a stop. My belief is that you would get anomalies deceling or in very quick transitions but not routine movement away from idle.

As to AT vs. 5-speed. Hmmm... You know the EZK retards timing during AT shifts, but this is high load over 4000 RPM only. Also, there is a gear position signal to the LH affecting idle. Since you don't have an AT, those are probably not having any effect, BUT you could change the coding plug wiring from AT to 5-speed (a rather simple change) and avoid the whole issue. I don't know enough about this to say whether it matters, but I think probably not.