WTB: GTS cams
08-07-2009, 11:59 AM
#1
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
WTB: GTS cams
I am interested in buying a set of 928 GTS cams. These are to be sacrificed on the altar of science. They'll most likley head straight to experimental surgery. I'll report the results, whether ultimately a success or not.
I am looking to buy either intake or exhaust sets, or full sets. At this point, I'd like to start with the GTS exhaust cams as the damage / value lost would be the least.
I need the chain wheel in perfect condition, lobes don't need to be that good. Those pitted cams are welcome!
My idea of pricing is that these should trade for about what the S3 cams trade for. The GTS cams are not as good as S3 cams, but are rare and S3's require a mod that costs something. Also, I have an offer to swap S3's to GTS's, but international shipping is a hassle. My (at this point not completely uninformed) view is that these are worth $350 per set, or $200 for the intakes and $150 for the exhausts. If these are way off the market, let me and others know.
If someone has a GTS with stock cams, I'd also trade a set of decent (not perfect) S4 exhaust cams to GTS exhaust cams. The GTS exhaust cams are inferior to the S4 exhaust cams even when run on with GTS intake cams, so someone might (/should) be interested in making that swap. S4 cams are so common, of course, that one can get those from pretty much anywhere.
PM me or respond to this thread.
I am looking to buy either intake or exhaust sets, or full sets. At this point, I'd like to start with the GTS exhaust cams as the damage / value lost would be the least.
I need the chain wheel in perfect condition, lobes don't need to be that good. Those pitted cams are welcome!
My idea of pricing is that these should trade for about what the S3 cams trade for. The GTS cams are not as good as S3 cams, but are rare and S3's require a mod that costs something. Also, I have an offer to swap S3's to GTS's, but international shipping is a hassle. My (at this point not completely uninformed) view is that these are worth $350 per set, or $200 for the intakes and $150 for the exhausts. If these are way off the market, let me and others know.
If someone has a GTS with stock cams, I'd also trade a set of decent (not perfect) S4 exhaust cams to GTS exhaust cams. The GTS exhaust cams are inferior to the S4 exhaust cams even when run on with GTS intake cams, so someone might (/should) be interested in making that swap. S4 cams are so common, of course, that one can get those from pretty much anywhere.
PM me or respond to this thread.
08-07-2009, 12:26 PM
#2
Electron Wrangler
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Good luck with your quest
But I suggest you reserve any ideas about pricing and get mentally prepared to pay what you need to to secure a GTS set...
They are rare enough that posting what you might like to pay is a bit pointless... Anyone who has them to sell will likely have a good idea (high) of what they are worth.
Your proposed pricing isn't likely to bring any GTS cam out of the woods... there just aren't many of them around to start with...
I think the likelihood of any GTS owner swapping his GTS exhaust cams for S4 exhaust cams is so close to 0% that it isn't worth arguing about...
Sorry it all just seems like a fantasy...
Alan
But I suggest you reserve any ideas about pricing and get mentally prepared to pay what you need to to secure a GTS set...
They are rare enough that posting what you might like to pay is a bit pointless... Anyone who has them to sell will likely have a good idea (high) of what they are worth.
Your proposed pricing isn't likely to bring any GTS cam out of the woods... there just aren't many of them around to start with...
I think the likelihood of any GTS owner swapping his GTS exhaust cams for S4 exhaust cams is so close to 0% that it isn't worth arguing about...
Sorry it all just seems like a fantasy...
Alan
08-07-2009, 12:35 PM
#3
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Sterling --
Thanks for the reponse. Yes, GTS cams are rare but so are three legged horses. Rare doesn't necessarily mean valuable. Rare means illiquid for sure, hence the post instead of just a call to a wrecker.
I overpaid (or at least I thought I overpaid with hindsight but perhaps hindhindsight turns out to be different) $500 for a set that got wrecked by Fedex this summer.
I also have an offer to exhange a S3 set to GTS set, but that's outside the country so shipping is expensive. That's where the $350 figure came from.
So perhaps I am low $350, but it's hard to argue that a GTS cam set is worth more than $500.
This is especially true for exhaust cams. The GTS exhaust cams are useless for everyone else except those experimenting with reweld/regrind ideas for turbo 928s. At this point that's an even rarer group than people down power because they run GTS exhaust cams.
In any case, it's possible that I am wrong and you're right. It would be nice if potential sellers would pm or post an asking price. If the market is a slightly higher, I'll pay the market. If the market is much higher, I'll simply sacrifice one of my modified S3 sets for this experiment.
Thanks for the reponse. Yes, GTS cams are rare but so are three legged horses. Rare doesn't necessarily mean valuable. Rare means illiquid for sure, hence the post instead of just a call to a wrecker.
I overpaid (or at least I thought I overpaid with hindsight but perhaps hindhindsight turns out to be different) $500 for a set that got wrecked by Fedex this summer.
I also have an offer to exhange a S3 set to GTS set, but that's outside the country so shipping is expensive. That's where the $350 figure came from.
So perhaps I am low $350, but it's hard to argue that a GTS cam set is worth more than $500.
This is especially true for exhaust cams. The GTS exhaust cams are useless for everyone else except those experimenting with reweld/regrind ideas for turbo 928s. At this point that's an even rarer group than people down power because they run GTS exhaust cams.
In any case, it's possible that I am wrong and you're right. It would be nice if potential sellers would pm or post an asking price. If the market is a slightly higher, I'll pay the market. If the market is much higher, I'll simply sacrifice one of my modified S3 sets for this experiment.
08-07-2009, 12:39 PM
#4
Nordschleife Master
i you want to reweld regrind why not just use the S4 cams you have.
If your destroying a stock set of cams, its always been understood to me to destroy whatever is in high supply. In this case S4 cams are pretty common. Those cars were sold in all markets from 87 to 91. The S3 was ONLY sold in the us for 2 years. Although I think they made like 11,000 of those cars in those 2 years.
Just play with the S4 cams, the only thing you care about is a long blank with the chain rings on it, youve got those in the S4 cams.
Also what your asking requires a torn apart GTS. You cant just swap cams on a whim to make a trade, you have to tear down the top of the engine obviously. Most GTS owners ive met just drive the cars too, they arent tinkering with them and they dont know about cam lobe specs and what not. You would have a hard time convincing them they WANT a set of used cams from an older 928 to go into their nice shiny GTS, and they would be less thrilled when they have to pay $1500 to have a shop do the work.
If your destroying a stock set of cams, its always been understood to me to destroy whatever is in high supply. In this case S4 cams are pretty common. Those cars were sold in all markets from 87 to 91. The S3 was ONLY sold in the us for 2 years. Although I think they made like 11,000 of those cars in those 2 years.
Just play with the S4 cams, the only thing you care about is a long blank with the chain rings on it, youve got those in the S4 cams.
Also what your asking requires a torn apart GTS. You cant just swap cams on a whim to make a trade, you have to tear down the top of the engine obviously. Most GTS owners ive met just drive the cars too, they arent tinkering with them and they dont know about cam lobe specs and what not. You would have a hard time convincing them they WANT a set of used cams from an older 928 to go into their nice shiny GTS, and they would be less thrilled when they have to pay $1500 to have a shop do the work.
08-07-2009, 12:51 PM
#5
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Alan and Sterling --
Of course, I didn't pull the $350 out of thin air. I paid $500 for a GTS set when the available S3 sets were offered at about $500. Since then, S3 sets have declined in price to $350, and given the exchange offer I figured the GTS and S3 sets should trade at parity. Quite possible that I am wrong, just pointing out that I didn't just make this up.
Also, in case it wasn't clear, it would be cash plus S4 exhaust for GTS exhaust. S4 are near damn worthless, even the wreckers don't take them. Sorry for confusion.
Since you both think those GTS sticks are so valuable, suppose that I can find sellers for a couple of sets from people who have upgraded, what kinds of bids are you guys willing to put for those? Perhaps we can make a lot of people of happy here with a little bit of trade. I have never and will never sell a 928 part for profit, this car stuff is a hobby not a job, so all the proceeds would go to directly to the sellers. I am not looking to be a paid middleman, just making sure that money and GTS cams end up with people who value them the most.
So how about bids from you and offers from sellers?
Of course, I didn't pull the $350 out of thin air. I paid $500 for a GTS set when the available S3 sets were offered at about $500. Since then, S3 sets have declined in price to $350, and given the exchange offer I figured the GTS and S3 sets should trade at parity. Quite possible that I am wrong, just pointing out that I didn't just make this up.
Also, in case it wasn't clear, it would be cash plus S4 exhaust for GTS exhaust. S4 are near damn worthless, even the wreckers don't take them. Sorry for confusion.
Since you both think those GTS sticks are so valuable, suppose that I can find sellers for a couple of sets from people who have upgraded, what kinds of bids are you guys willing to put for those? Perhaps we can make a lot of people of happy here with a little bit of trade. I have never and will never sell a 928 part for profit, this car stuff is a hobby not a job, so all the proceeds would go to directly to the sellers. I am not looking to be a paid middleman, just making sure that money and GTS cams end up with people who value them the most.
So how about bids from you and offers from sellers?
08-07-2009, 01:02 PM
#6
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Ryan --
The turbo lobe separation angle works the best with S3 cams. GTS are the second best option. S4 cams are no good with their narrow LSA for turbo experiments.
If it weren't for the LSA, yes, I'd wreck some S4 cams that I have.
I thought GTS cams would be cheap because they offer poor performance relative to S3 cams. I also thought that GTS exhausts would be even cheaper because they are worse for any NA engine than even S4 exhausts.
Now, with hindsight, I should have understood that the owners of those GTS cams may think that they are worth their weight in gold billet cams lobes coated with diamons.
The turbo lobe separation angle works the best with S3 cams. GTS are the second best option. S4 cams are no good with their narrow LSA for turbo experiments.
If it weren't for the LSA, yes, I'd wreck some S4 cams that I have.
I thought GTS cams would be cheap because they offer poor performance relative to S3 cams. I also thought that GTS exhausts would be even cheaper because they are worse for any NA engine than even S4 exhausts.
Now, with hindsight, I should have understood that the owners of those GTS cams may think that they are worth their weight in gold billet cams lobes coated with diamons.
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08-07-2009, 07:15 PM
#8
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Code:
2219 US '85 MY 877 US '86 MY 2010 US '86.5 MY 100 to 150 ROW 32V '86 MY ----------------------------- Between 5200 and 5260 S3 made
In ROW ratio is 100-150 ROW S3 against 2481 ROW GTS. No wonder someone is stupid enough to do the swap.
08-07-2009, 07:17 PM
#9
Nordschleife Master
Code:
2219 US '85 MY 877 US '86 MY 2010 US '86.5 MY 100 to 150 ROW 32V '86 MY ----------- Between 5200 and 5260 S3 made
In ROW ratio is 100-150 ROW S3 against 2481 ROW GTS. No wonder someone is stupid enough to do the swap.
Im surprised there are less than 6,000 S3 cars made, thats surprising, thats much rarer then the S4
But to my point, i think its less than ideal to destroy the rarest of cams for this project, well i guess GT is the rarest, but not by much.
08-07-2009, 08:02 PM
#10
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Largest single MY US model production was 3007 cars made in '84 MY. Together with 2028 ROW cars it was second largest MY with 5035 cars made in all. Largest was '79 MY when 5437 were made worldwide.
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...in-thread.html
GTS cams are basically useless. I'll have S3 cams in automatic and plan is to change GTS intake/S4 exhaust combination into it later on when large valve heads will move to manual GTS. Other mixed S4 intake/GTS exhaust pair will go into SC'd S4 engine build.
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...in-thread.html
GTS cams are basically useless.
I'll have S3 cams in automatic and plan is to change GTS intake/S4 exhaust combination into it later on when large valve heads will move to manual GTS. Other mixed S4 intake/GTS exhaust pair will go into SC'd S4 engine build.
08-07-2009, 09:07 PM
#11
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Shoot me an email. I have a set of GTS cams both exhaust and intake I could part with. Cams have 59,000 miles and are in excellent condition. $350 is not in the cards but $500 is.
08-08-2009, 01:52 AM
#13
08-10-2009, 07:19 PM
#14
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Have a set of GTS cams with 20,000 miles on them in great condition, Need a set of S3 cams in similar condition to experiment on my racer. I am in the US next week. S3 + some cash my way works...
Alex
Alex
08-10-2009, 09:12 PM
#15
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
S3 cams in similar condition are not around. More used ones you can probably get from 928intl or 928ww. A month ago, maybe 8 sets traded for $350 per set. I think you should get the those directly, and if you want to discuss the GTS cam price as a stand-alone trade, shoot me a PM.