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Old 07-27-2009, 04:01 PM
  #16  
VehiGAZ
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They can have my 928 when they pry the keys out of my cold, dead fingers...
Old 07-27-2009, 04:50 PM
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Marine Blue
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Originally Posted by VehiGAZ
They can have my 928 when they pry the keys out of my cold, dead fingers...
That is exactly what I was thinking....
Old 07-27-2009, 05:42 PM
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Grey Wolf
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there was a discussion at lunch today on this subject. Was told that they seize the engines of any car that qualifies as soon as you drive off the lot. Not sure if thats true or not, just what I heard..........
Old 07-28-2009, 04:14 AM
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Z928328
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Originally Posted by Grey Wolf
there was a discussion at lunch today on this subject. Was told that they seize the engines of any car that qualifies as soon as you drive off the lot. Not sure if thats true or not, just what I heard..........
I'm not from the US but I read this article from another forum


By John Hughes
July 24 (Bloomberg) -- Dealers in the U.S. “cash-for- clunkers” program are being forced to disable trade-in vehicles with a chemical under new rules to prevent those who take the government subsidies from reselling the cars.

Dealers must replace the oil in the “clunker” with two quarts of sodium silicate solution and run the engine for up to seven minutes, permanently disabling it, according to rules released today by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in Washington.

“Substantial opportunity exists for fraudulent diversion of the trade-in vehicle, largely because its still-functioning engine makes it attractive to return the vehicle to the road rather than relegate it to the scrap yard,” the NHTSA said.

The government is trying to help jump-start slumping auto sales through the program, giving consumers new-vehicle credits of as much as $4,500 for turning in older cars. Sales of cars and light trucks in 2008 totaled 13.2 million, after averaging more than 16 million a year during this decade. Federal inspectors will review dealer records and vehicles for violators of the rules, who would face a $15,000 fine per infraction.

NHTSA officials said in a footnote of the rules that they “understand” vehicles in Germany’s “clunkers” program have been resold rather than scrapped after certifications that the vehicles were disposed.

Sodium silicate is a substance found in dishwasher detergent and used to seal exhaust leaks in repair shops, according to the rules. The agency said it doesn’t believe use of the product will present a hazard to dealerships,
scrap-yard workers or the environment.

Dealer Opposition

Dealers opposed the engine provision and a rule that requires them to possess used-car titles in order to get federal reimbursement. The retailers have said they’re not in the business of destroying engines and that the $50 of the scrap value they are allowed to keep may not cover costs of the action.

Consumers often don’t know where their titles are and getting them could take as long as eight weeks, said John McEleney, chairman of the McLean, Virginia-based National Automobile Dealers Association.

The provisions will “add some time” and “add some cost” for dealers, McEleney said in an interview today. “We need the stimulus so badly we’ll make it work.”

While the law took effect on July 1, NHTSA had encouraged dealers to wait for today’s publication of the rules to begin making transactions.
‘Not That Complicated’

“It’s not that complicated,” Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said in a Bloomberg Television interview today. “Bring proof of insurance, bring proof that you’ve owned the car for one year, and bring it in.”

President Barack Obama signed the clunkers program into law June 24 after Congress approved it the previous week as part of legislation to finance the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. The $1 billion in federal subsidies may spark 250,000 new car sales, U.S. lawmakers have said.

Consumers will get a $4,500 discount if the new car they are buying gets 10 miles-a-gallon better gas mileage than the model they are trading in. For light trucks, the improvement must be 5 mpg better than the older model.

For a $3,500 credit, the improvement for cars must be 4 mpg or better, and for light trucks, 2 mpg. The trade-in vehicle must be no older than a 1984 model and get 18 mpg or less in combined city/highway fuel economy.

New passenger cars purchased with the discount must get at least 22 mpg in city/highway fuel economy, and light trucks must get at least 18 mpg. Domestic as well as foreign models sold in the U.S. qualify.

The program will end Nov. 1 or when the $1 billion in subsidies expire, whichever occurs first. Congress must decide later this year whether to approve legislation extending the program into 2010.

To contact the reporter on this story: John Hughes in Washington at jhughes5@bloomberg.net
Last Updated: July 24, 2009 17:11 EDT
Z
Old 07-28-2009, 09:01 AM
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9two8
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Seems like there all at it ???......, just think I can scrap my beautiful 928S and have a Tin Euro-box, WOW !!! what a deal, just can,t wait ??

Would,nt mind but this scheme over here is only benefitting cars that are made in the far east, and not technically British workers, (Or am I missing the point ? )

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...ingAVehicle/DG

.....,seems like they dont want you to see this ???? another one FYI
http://www.ukcarscrappagescheme.co.u...-how-it-works/
Ken
80 928 S
5 Speed

UK
Old 07-28-2009, 09:10 AM
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Marine Blue
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If this is all true there will be a shortage of vehicles in the coming years and prices will go up dramatically. Yet another reason to buy now if you have the means.
Old 07-28-2009, 12:38 PM
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VehiGAZ
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Originally Posted by Marine Blue
That is exactly what I was thinking....
That's pretty damned redneck for a couple of New England boys!
Old 07-28-2009, 12:59 PM
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SteveG
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Default Pcar clunker?

This is really a non-issue thread and belongs in OT. No self-respecting Pcar owner is interested in this nor the target of the program. Even if you feel a smidgeon of guilt, the pollution from the 20,000 or so remaining sharks, a fraction of which are driven daily, contributes nada pollution compared to the real intent of the program. Since we love our cars, the vast majority are tuned to run properly and therefore are not polluters. If you don't cringe when you see a black cloud exit a clunker diesel or a '75 Buick stationwagon clunker there is something wrong with you; that is the point of the program, coupled with, yes, subsidizing another Detroit product.

928 Qualifier: "Totally unscientific personal opinion to follow:" In one weekend, NASCAR racing emits more pollutants than all sharks in a year of our driving.

Point #2, Uh, we have already opted for a FOREIGN car and probably would not replace any clunker with a Detroit product even though it would be a vast improvement over a clunker.
Old 07-28-2009, 02:01 PM
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IrishLegend
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Besides, global warming is a scam!
Old 07-28-2009, 08:42 PM
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76FJ55
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I agree there will be a lot of good vehicles crushed by this program, and as I see it, it will drive a big gap in the cars at the lower price point by eliminating the $3000 to $5000 price car supply. Also as mentioned previously I agree the real clunkers probably won't be removed from the roads as the people driving them are most likely not in a position to buy new cars.

On the other hand if they would amend the program I think it could be made beneficial. What they need to do is as cars are turned in for the "cash for clunkers" program they need to be held on a lot for some reasonable period of time. During this time others with cars that would qualify for the credit would have the opportunity to trade their car for one on the lot at little to no cost. They could maintain the same requirements for increased fuel economy as the current program. This in effect would offer to eliminate the worst of the worst by allowing the better vehicles to trickle down, and in the end the least valuable and worst fuel efficient vehicle would be left for the crushers.
Old 07-29-2009, 12:37 AM
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IrishLegend
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Yeah, then the government could run car companies and actually sale new/used cars too!
Old 07-29-2009, 03:17 AM
  #27  
RSKY BIZ
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Both of my 928's get more than 18 mpg combined. . .
That's in real life, not on some graph.

Happily disqualified, and not taking any hand-outs!
Doc
Old 07-29-2009, 04:54 AM
  #28  
danglerb
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Like any government program, damage is hard to predict until its done.
Old 07-29-2009, 09:05 AM
  #29  
Marine Blue
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I haven't read all the details but does anyone know if the dealer will offer full trade in value plus whatever deals they have at the moment? In addition will the government then kick in an additional rebate?

Seems like a no brainer to trade up an older car although the damage will be obvious to consumers later.

I wonder if dealers can part the cars instead of crushing/dismantling them.
Old 07-29-2009, 12:19 PM
  #30  
VehiGAZ
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I thought there was no trade-in, since the clunker won't be resold, just the tax credit (same as cash!).


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