I got a mailed complaint about my carbon footprint
06-26-2009, 12:45 AM
#91
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But Dan... that applies to 'parts cars' as well. Parts cars that are non-moving and non-polluting are being turned over for easy cash. Junkyards across America are quietly disappearing... all because of the 'Kalifornia Kause'. That is what gets people fed up. The cause-and-effect does not just stay in CA... and whether or not the outcome was planned... the outcome remains. 'Junk cars' belong in junk yards -to maintain the good ones. The state of the economy is justification enough for this... new PAG parts are expensive!
There will come a day when Porsche decides to cease production of anything 928-related... then what? So, if you are someone that has a well-maintained, safe, reliable, efficient 928 -you are screwed. Here's your $650?!?
I will bet there are 20-30 year old Ferraris and Lambos that do the Pebble Beach and Amelia Island concours shows... what happens to them? We may think its okay to do this to the beater Hondas or Fords... but a 928? Where does the line get drawn?
I hope that a MOD doesn't move this thread over to OT, because Mongo is one of us -a 928'er. This should be a wakeup call to all of us. Should we really wait until they show up at our front door with a tow truck before we stand up for ourselves... all of us?
06-26-2009, 01:56 AM
#93
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Sorry to get in on this so late.
But was there a return address on the envelope?
If so, I would wipe my *** with the letter (after a big Mexican meal) and mail it back to them.
Besides it was probably just junk mail.
But was there a return address on the envelope?
If so, I would wipe my *** with the letter (after a big Mexican meal) and mail it back to them.
Besides it was probably just junk mail.
06-26-2009, 03:59 AM
#94
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If every 928 ever made was driving around San Fran without CATS, they would still not compare to the real pollutants to California:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...ping-pollution
From that link:
Confidential data from maritime industry insiders based on engine size and the quality of fuel typically used by ships and cars shows that just 15 of the world's biggest ships may now emit as much pollution as all the world's 760m cars. Low-grade ship bunker fuel (or fuel oil) has up to 2,000 times the sulphur content of diesel fuel used in US and European automobiles.
<snip>
Cars driving 15,000km a year emit approximately 101 grammes of sulphur oxide gases (or SOx) in that time. The world's largest ships' diesel engines which typically operate for about 280 days a year generate roughly 5,200 tonnes of SOx.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...ping-pollution
From that link:
Confidential data from maritime industry insiders based on engine size and the quality of fuel typically used by ships and cars shows that just 15 of the world's biggest ships may now emit as much pollution as all the world's 760m cars. Low-grade ship bunker fuel (or fuel oil) has up to 2,000 times the sulphur content of diesel fuel used in US and European automobiles.
<snip>
Cars driving 15,000km a year emit approximately 101 grammes of sulphur oxide gases (or SOx) in that time. The world's largest ships' diesel engines which typically operate for about 280 days a year generate roughly 5,200 tonnes of SOx.
However, when somebody else does something bad, it is never a justification for me to do bad things myself.
Is your conclusion that cars should pollute more again, or that something should be done to make ships pollute less?
06-26-2009, 06:21 AM
#95
Hacker-Porschr and Nichole, I would not believe everything you read about ships and pollution.
Around 93% or more of the world commodities are transported in ships (around 90,000 international ships now registered )and they are the most efficient operting system in the world today when you look at the tonnes of fuel used (and the pollution figure) to transport a tonne of cargo per mile. Jet aeroplanes are approximately 600 time more atmospheric pollutors than ships and the cars ,which you speak of carry very little cargo, as a matter of fact if there were no ships there would be very few cars or even non at all.
I used to say that if there was a better system of transportation then I would be into it ASAP, as I could make a fortune in a very short time. So if you enjoy driving your Porsche then think of the ships that bring in a fair % of crude into the USA that produces the petrol and the lub oil as well as numerous other items we enjoy in our every day living.
Ships are generally an easy target for environmentalists and regulators who generally sectorise the problem instead of taking a total system approach to solve the total problem. They do this as ships don't vote and therefore are an easy target for regulartors to feel good about doing something without their constituants complaining to them about it. A great majority of the air pollution is absorbed by the ocean around the ships, so the biggest problem is pollutioon whilst ships are in port. This port pollution is now being taken care of by "Cold Ironing", that is connecting to the electrical grid, so no pollution from ships in port in the future?
I spent many year at the International Maritime Organisation specifically assisting in drafting the the Annex to the MAPOL Convention titled "The Prevention of Air Pollution from Ships", which has been ratified into International Maritime Law. More specifically I also assisted in drafting the NOx Technical Code governing the production of NOx, SOx , VOCs and CO2, so don't believe everything you read about pollution from ships at sea and in port. A lot of pollution in Europe is from neighbouring countries.
i hope that I have not stole this thread, but marine diesel engine are getting larger and larger, more efficient and are fitted to bigger and bigger ships. I have seen plans for 1,000,000 DWT tankers, so the sky is the limit in more way than one.
My advice is to buy green offsets that will neutralise the pollution from our cars. Plant more trees for a start, in a fully managed system.
Tails 1990 928S4 Auto
Around 93% or more of the world commodities are transported in ships (around 90,000 international ships now registered )and they are the most efficient operting system in the world today when you look at the tonnes of fuel used (and the pollution figure) to transport a tonne of cargo per mile. Jet aeroplanes are approximately 600 time more atmospheric pollutors than ships and the cars ,which you speak of carry very little cargo, as a matter of fact if there were no ships there would be very few cars or even non at all.
I used to say that if there was a better system of transportation then I would be into it ASAP, as I could make a fortune in a very short time. So if you enjoy driving your Porsche then think of the ships that bring in a fair % of crude into the USA that produces the petrol and the lub oil as well as numerous other items we enjoy in our every day living.
Ships are generally an easy target for environmentalists and regulators who generally sectorise the problem instead of taking a total system approach to solve the total problem. They do this as ships don't vote and therefore are an easy target for regulartors to feel good about doing something without their constituants complaining to them about it. A great majority of the air pollution is absorbed by the ocean around the ships, so the biggest problem is pollutioon whilst ships are in port. This port pollution is now being taken care of by "Cold Ironing", that is connecting to the electrical grid, so no pollution from ships in port in the future?
I spent many year at the International Maritime Organisation specifically assisting in drafting the the Annex to the MAPOL Convention titled "The Prevention of Air Pollution from Ships", which has been ratified into International Maritime Law. More specifically I also assisted in drafting the NOx Technical Code governing the production of NOx, SOx , VOCs and CO2, so don't believe everything you read about pollution from ships at sea and in port. A lot of pollution in Europe is from neighbouring countries.
i hope that I have not stole this thread, but marine diesel engine are getting larger and larger, more efficient and are fitted to bigger and bigger ships. I have seen plans for 1,000,000 DWT tankers, so the sky is the limit in more way than one.
My advice is to buy green offsets that will neutralise the pollution from our cars. Plant more trees for a start, in a fully managed system.
Tails 1990 928S4 Auto
06-26-2009, 10:09 AM
#96
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Natural attrition has been doing a great job of getting older cars off the road as it is. With the cost of gas, people are already tending to buy more fuel efficient vehicles. Now the G'ment has decided they can simply print more money and speed up the process.
How much pollution is involved making the new cars?
While the 928 is designed to last, Florida allows you a "antique" or classic plate at 30 years of age.... They simply need a new way of tagging the 30 year old American cars - I'd suggest they call it the "Miracle" plate.
06-26-2009, 10:22 AM
#97
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or if they really wanted to cut down on pollution they would just kill all the cows......
plus remember that one volcanic eruption produces more pollution than pretty much all of man kind.
I am just waiting for yellowstone to blow and take out half of NA with it....
There has to be a point where we stop believing all the garbage we are spoon fed by the media too.
plus remember that one volcanic eruption produces more pollution than pretty much all of man kind.
I am just waiting for yellowstone to blow and take out half of NA with it....
There has to be a point where we stop believing all the garbage we are spoon fed by the media too.
06-26-2009, 10:28 AM
#98
Sorry guys, couldn't help but chime in...
Interesting priorities the state has. Here in S. Carolina you can drip oil and PCB's from the tailpipe without raising a lick of interest.. more importantly....
Calif Population = 36,756,666, assuming 10% cars smoke = 3,675,666 cars x 1 piece of paper ($0.016) and envelope (0.043) (0.0589 x 3675666) = $216,496.72 (note not including salaried workers to mail envelopes, printing ink, electricity, etc.)
thats 4 (four) teachers salaries, or one city official..
Nice.
Curt
---------------------
79 928 5sp silver/blk
02 Boxster 5sp blk/blk/blk
Interesting priorities the state has. Here in S. Carolina you can drip oil and PCB's from the tailpipe without raising a lick of interest.. more importantly....
Calif Population = 36,756,666, assuming 10% cars smoke = 3,675,666 cars x 1 piece of paper ($0.016) and envelope (0.043) (0.0589 x 3675666) = $216,496.72 (note not including salaried workers to mail envelopes, printing ink, electricity, etc.)
thats 4 (four) teachers salaries, or one city official..
Nice.
Curt
---------------------
79 928 5sp silver/blk
02 Boxster 5sp blk/blk/blk
06-26-2009, 01:54 PM
#100
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Ships' gallon fuel burned per utility gained in transporting goods trumps bored driver tooling around to go to the Mall in a large single person occupancy SUV.
The big ships have huuuge engines with pistons that weigh more than a car or two, I think.
The big ships have huuuge engines with pistons that weigh more than a car or two, I think.
06-26-2009, 03:11 PM
#101
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06-27-2009, 02:13 AM
#103
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White Lightning, Sorry about the delay in my response, I’ve been traveling a lot this week.
The CA program is not for 'parts cars'. It is for cars that must be running and registered vehicles on the street. In regards to destroying cars for parts like the ones we use for our 928s, I can assure you the rare, expensive, unique, cars are not being crunched up in the wrecking machine. Most people know if their car is a unique, desired vehicle. If they don't, and they turn their 928 in for the $650 bucks, trust me the people at the contracted wrecking yard know how to process the paperwork to prevent the car from being destroyed. What you see are lunkmobiles like a 1982 Chevrolet Celebrity, which will never be considered a collectible car, being removed from the road and shredded, which is fantastic. Cars of that ilk have no intrinsic value.
You are right in that there will come a day when Porsche no longer manufactures or provides parts for the 928. So what? That is true for every car. I have been fortunate to own obscure, collectible, to me anyway, cars where parts are no longer available. My 1966 Sunbeam Tiger is a great example. What do I do to maintain my car? There is a cadre of Tiger Parts specialists, just like we have for the 928. For those parts that are no longer available, we fabricate or innovate. This is true for all cars.
Most of the truly unique and rare cars at the Monterrey/Pebble Beach Concurs have little of the original body work on them.. There are master artisans that are paid large $$$ to roll out and pound out new body panels. As owners of a rare, limited number of production Porsches I can assure you parts are becoming more scare or not available every day. The California $650 program has resulted in little impact if any in regards to our cars. It is important to note this program is a voluntary, not mandatory, option to get crappy, polluting, unsafe and mostly uninsured cars off the road.
If people are really concerned about 928’s being destroyed, then perhaps we should make up small cards we could tuck under the windshield wiper that includes the business names of the 928 dismantler community with the following note “These companies want you car running or not. Please call for $$$.” That would at least give our kind the chance to intervene and secure more valuable parts…. just a thought.
The CA program is not for 'parts cars'. It is for cars that must be running and registered vehicles on the street. In regards to destroying cars for parts like the ones we use for our 928s, I can assure you the rare, expensive, unique, cars are not being crunched up in the wrecking machine. Most people know if their car is a unique, desired vehicle. If they don't, and they turn their 928 in for the $650 bucks, trust me the people at the contracted wrecking yard know how to process the paperwork to prevent the car from being destroyed. What you see are lunkmobiles like a 1982 Chevrolet Celebrity, which will never be considered a collectible car, being removed from the road and shredded, which is fantastic. Cars of that ilk have no intrinsic value.
You are right in that there will come a day when Porsche no longer manufactures or provides parts for the 928. So what? That is true for every car. I have been fortunate to own obscure, collectible, to me anyway, cars where parts are no longer available. My 1966 Sunbeam Tiger is a great example. What do I do to maintain my car? There is a cadre of Tiger Parts specialists, just like we have for the 928. For those parts that are no longer available, we fabricate or innovate. This is true for all cars.
Most of the truly unique and rare cars at the Monterrey/Pebble Beach Concurs have little of the original body work on them.. There are master artisans that are paid large $$$ to roll out and pound out new body panels. As owners of a rare, limited number of production Porsches I can assure you parts are becoming more scare or not available every day. The California $650 program has resulted in little impact if any in regards to our cars. It is important to note this program is a voluntary, not mandatory, option to get crappy, polluting, unsafe and mostly uninsured cars off the road.
If people are really concerned about 928’s being destroyed, then perhaps we should make up small cards we could tuck under the windshield wiper that includes the business names of the 928 dismantler community with the following note “These companies want you car running or not. Please call for $$$.” That would at least give our kind the chance to intervene and secure more valuable parts…. just a thought.
But Dan... that applies to 'parts cars' as well. Parts cars that are non-moving and non-polluting are being turned over for easy cash. Junkyards across America are quietly disappearing... all because of the 'Kalifornia Kause'. That is what gets people fed up. The cause-and-effect does not just stay in CA... and whether or not the outcome was planned... the outcome remains. 'Junk cars' belong in junk yards -to maintain the good ones. The state of the economy is justification enough for this... new PAG parts are expensive!
There will come a day when Porsche decides to cease production of anything 928-related... then what? So, if you are someone that has a well-maintained, safe, reliable, efficient 928 -you are screwed. Here's your $650?!?
I will bet there are 20-30 year old Ferraris and Lambos that do the Pebble Beach and Amelia Island concours shows... what happens to them? We may think its okay to do this to the beater Hondas or Fords... but a 928? Where does the line get drawn?
I hope that a MOD doesn't move this thread over to OT, because Mongo is one of us -a 928'er. This should be a wakeup call to all of us. Should we really wait until they show up at our front door with a tow truck before we stand up for ourselves... all of us?
There will come a day when Porsche decides to cease production of anything 928-related... then what? So, if you are someone that has a well-maintained, safe, reliable, efficient 928 -you are screwed. Here's your $650?!?
I will bet there are 20-30 year old Ferraris and Lambos that do the Pebble Beach and Amelia Island concours shows... what happens to them? We may think its okay to do this to the beater Hondas or Fords... but a 928? Where does the line get drawn?
I hope that a MOD doesn't move this thread over to OT, because Mongo is one of us -a 928'er. This should be a wakeup call to all of us. Should we really wait until they show up at our front door with a tow truck before we stand up for ourselves... all of us?
06-27-2009, 08:52 AM
#104
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If people are really concerned about 928’s being destroyed, then perhaps we should make up small cards we could tuck under the windshield wiper that includes the names of those in the 928 community who restore them - with the following note “These folks want you car running or not. Please call for $$$.” That would at least give our kind the chance to intervene and save these cars…. just a thought.
Fixed it for ya
If you can put that note under the wiper, we are speaking of a viable candidate.
06-27-2009, 11:05 AM
#105
I've said it before and run the numbers and at least for me personally, keeping my 26-year-old Porsche on the road, maintaining it and enjoying it, even at 15mpg, is cheaper than buying a new Prius. Throw in the fact that I didn't consume a new car and all the associated manufacturing energy costs, didn't put an old car into a landfill, and I believe I'm pretty environmentally friendly.
Now the guy who buys a 1974 Pinto and converts it to biodiesel while living in a box has me beat...but I ain't going that far.
Now the guy who buys a 1974 Pinto and converts it to biodiesel while living in a box has me beat...but I ain't going that far.