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06-21-2009, 01:04 AM
#76
Administrator - "Tyson"
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You have a 4MATIC badge on your 928? Seriously?
Why not put a VTEC or TDI badge next to it.
I'm confused.......
As for the HEMI discussion, Jim Bailey said it best:
https://rennlist.com/forums/4132715-post2.html
The 928 head doesn't even remotely look like this:
See the difference?
Why not put a VTEC or TDI badge next to it.
I'm confused.......
As for the HEMI discussion, Jim Bailey said it best:
https://rennlist.com/forums/4132715-post2.html
The 928 head doesn't even remotely look like this:
See the difference?
06-21-2009, 01:10 AM
#77
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A littel Wiki for you. Take with a grain of salt.
Hemispherical cylinder heads have been used since at least 1903; they were used by the Belgian car maker Pipe in 1905[4], the Peugeot Grand prix Car of 1912, the Alfa Romeo GP car of 1914, Daimler, and Riley. Stutz built four valve engines, conceptually anticipating modern car engines. The BMW double push rod design, taken over by Bristol Cars, the Peugeot 403 and the Toyota T engine are other well known hemi engines. Harry Arminius Miller racing engines were also a notable example.
Porsche has made extensive use of hemi-head engines, including the air-cooled flat-6 engine in Porsche 911 models from 1963 to 1999. The 1973 2.4 L version generated 56 hp per naturally-aspirated litre of piston displacement.
The most current Dodge "Hemi" below is no more Hemispherical than a 32v 928 head IMO.
Hemispherical cylinder heads have been used since at least 1903; they were used by the Belgian car maker Pipe in 1905[4], the Peugeot Grand prix Car of 1912, the Alfa Romeo GP car of 1914, Daimler, and Riley. Stutz built four valve engines, conceptually anticipating modern car engines. The BMW double push rod design, taken over by Bristol Cars, the Peugeot 403 and the Toyota T engine are other well known hemi engines. Harry Arminius Miller racing engines were also a notable example.
Porsche has made extensive use of hemi-head engines, including the air-cooled flat-6 engine in Porsche 911 models from 1963 to 1999. The 1973 2.4 L version generated 56 hp per naturally-aspirated litre of piston displacement.
The most current Dodge "Hemi" below is no more Hemispherical than a 32v 928 head IMO.
06-21-2009, 01:11 AM
#78
Rennlist Member
Sure, I see the difference... the 928 has a 'closed chamber' for higher compression -whereas the hemi has an 'open chamber' (same diameter and configuration as the cylinder bore).
But, the hemi isn't a real hemisphere either.
But, the hemi isn't a real hemisphere either.
06-21-2009, 01:14 AM
#79
Rennlist Member
The 'modified' purists have spoken!
I'll remove my badges, if you remove your superchargers... and I'll remove my GTS reflector strip on the rear if y'all remove your GTS quarters.... etc.
I'll remove my badges, if you remove your superchargers... and I'll remove my GTS reflector strip on the rear if y'all remove your GTS quarters.... etc.
06-21-2009, 01:16 AM
#80
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A littel Wiki for you. Take with a grain of salt.
Hemispherical cylinder heads have been used since at least 1903; they were used by the Belgian car maker Pipe in 1905[4], the Peugeot Grand prix Car of 1912, the Alfa Romeo GP car of 1914, Daimler, and Riley. Stutz built four valve engines, conceptually anticipating modern car engines. The BMW double push rod design, taken over by Bristol Cars, the Peugeot 403 and the Toyota T engine are other well known hemi engines. Harry Arminius Miller racing engines were also a notable example.
Porsche has made extensive use of hemi-head engines, including the air-cooled flat-6 engine in Porsche 911 models from 1963 to 1999. The 1973 2.4 L version generated 56 hp per naturally-aspirated litre of piston displacement.
The most current Dodge "Hemi" below is no more Hemispherical than a 32v 928 head IMO.
Hemispherical cylinder heads have been used since at least 1903; they were used by the Belgian car maker Pipe in 1905[4], the Peugeot Grand prix Car of 1912, the Alfa Romeo GP car of 1914, Daimler, and Riley. Stutz built four valve engines, conceptually anticipating modern car engines. The BMW double push rod design, taken over by Bristol Cars, the Peugeot 403 and the Toyota T engine are other well known hemi engines. Harry Arminius Miller racing engines were also a notable example.
Porsche has made extensive use of hemi-head engines, including the air-cooled flat-6 engine in Porsche 911 models from 1963 to 1999. The 1973 2.4 L version generated 56 hp per naturally-aspirated litre of piston displacement.
The most current Dodge "Hemi" below is no more Hemispherical than a 32v 928 head IMO.
best way to tell, if you took the valves out, does it look like half a ball?
The 32 valve 928 does not even come close.
06-21-2009, 01:21 AM
#81
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If you think I am a purist, guess again.
06-21-2009, 01:22 AM
#82
Administrator - "Tyson"
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Now if you actually figured out a way to wedge a Mercedes 4Matic drivetrain into your 928, I'm all ears.
06-21-2009, 01:25 AM
#83
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Yes, I know... 'HEMI' is a trademarked word for the Chrysler Corporation. They are the only ones 'legally' allowed to use it. However, even the 'HEMI' is not a true hemisphere. There never has been a true hemispherical combustion chamber on anything. There have been some close approximations, but the flat valve faces prevent it. I merely took liberties to personalize my car... allow me to explain my reasoning behind the 2 badges:
HEMI:
Chrysler:
90 degree V8 engine
Semi-hemispherical combustion chambers with opposing intake & exhaust runners
Spark plug centrally located at chamber apex
Porsche:
90 degree V8 engine
Semi-hemispherical combustion chambers with opposing intake & exhaust runners
Spark plug centrally located at chamber apex
"If it looks like a hemi, runs like a hemi, sounds like a hemi, it must be a _____."
4MATIC:
Mercedes Benz:
Automatic Transmission
4 forward gears; 1 reverse gear
All wheel drive
Porsche:
Automatic Transmission made by Mercedes Benz
4 forward gears; 1 reverse gear
Rear wheel drive... but all wheel grip!
Sure, the badges are not stock and they are certainly not Porsche.
Let's think about some other things that are not Porsche or 928:
Ruf; Rinnspeed; AIR; Strosek; Jaquemond; Koenig; etc. body kits
Roots or centrifugal Superchargers
Turbos (on 928s anyway)
Nitrous oxide injection
Stroker motors
Programmable injection & ignition chips
Aftermarket headers
Aftermarket wheels
All-aluminum radiators
Drilled brake rotors (on 928s anyway)
RMBs
Any stereo system other than Blaupunkt
Clear lenses/painted lenses (on 928s anyway)
Painted rear spoilers on other than GTS's (on 928s anyway)
You get the idea... I love all that stuff too. Anything that improves the car; the ownership; the driving experience -is allright with me.
But its not PORSCHE either, is it?
HEMI:
Chrysler:
90 degree V8 engine
Semi-hemispherical combustion chambers with opposing intake & exhaust runners
Spark plug centrally located at chamber apex
Porsche:
90 degree V8 engine
Semi-hemispherical combustion chambers with opposing intake & exhaust runners
Spark plug centrally located at chamber apex
"If it looks like a hemi, runs like a hemi, sounds like a hemi, it must be a _____."
4MATIC:
Mercedes Benz:
Automatic Transmission
4 forward gears; 1 reverse gear
All wheel drive
Porsche:
Automatic Transmission made by Mercedes Benz
4 forward gears; 1 reverse gear
Rear wheel drive... but all wheel grip!
Sure, the badges are not stock and they are certainly not Porsche.
Let's think about some other things that are not Porsche or 928:
Ruf; Rinnspeed; AIR; Strosek; Jaquemond; Koenig; etc. body kits
Roots or centrifugal Superchargers
Turbos (on 928s anyway)
Nitrous oxide injection
Stroker motors
Programmable injection & ignition chips
Aftermarket headers
Aftermarket wheels
All-aluminum radiators
Drilled brake rotors (on 928s anyway)
RMBs
Any stereo system other than Blaupunkt
Clear lenses/painted lenses (on 928s anyway)
Painted rear spoilers on other than GTS's (on 928s anyway)
You get the idea... I love all that stuff too. Anything that improves the car; the ownership; the driving experience -is allright with me.
But its not PORSCHE either, is it?
The older mopar's do.
Look at them man.
06-21-2009, 01:32 AM
#84
Rennlist Member
Greg, I know you're not a purist... that was the point.
So, where does the line get drawn... do 928s that have a Chevy engine have to remove the name 'Porsche'? Or, an S4 that has had a 5-speed tranny swap can no longer wear an S4 badge -it has to get a GT badge?
My point was even the 'Hemi' is not a 'hemisphere' by absolute geometric definition. I'm sure you can find a cross-section of the head on the web somewhere... it is merely a trademarked marketing word. Was it the closest thing to a true hemisphere? Probably... but 'Almost a Hemi' or 'Semi-Hemi' just wouldn't sell cars, would it?
The badges actually give me a chance to explain some of the engineering in my 928... as most people seem to have never known that Porsche put a V8 in anything other than a Cayenne... and even some 928 owners didn't know that the automatic was designed by Mercedes Benz (4MATIC = 4 speed automatic).
Wow... this started as a danglerb thread!
So, where does the line get drawn... do 928s that have a Chevy engine have to remove the name 'Porsche'? Or, an S4 that has had a 5-speed tranny swap can no longer wear an S4 badge -it has to get a GT badge?
My point was even the 'Hemi' is not a 'hemisphere' by absolute geometric definition. I'm sure you can find a cross-section of the head on the web somewhere... it is merely a trademarked marketing word. Was it the closest thing to a true hemisphere? Probably... but 'Almost a Hemi' or 'Semi-Hemi' just wouldn't sell cars, would it?
The badges actually give me a chance to explain some of the engineering in my 928... as most people seem to have never known that Porsche put a V8 in anything other than a Cayenne... and even some 928 owners didn't know that the automatic was designed by Mercedes Benz (4MATIC = 4 speed automatic).
Wow... this started as a danglerb thread!
06-21-2009, 01:34 AM
#85
Rennlist Member
I also have a modernized '928S4' in the script letters on my car. That is not appropriate for an '88 model -should I remove them as well?
06-21-2009, 01:39 AM
#86
Rennlist Member
Did you see my 2nd vehicle? It is the same year that Chrysler ceased production on the 426 HEMI engine for civilian use. They did continue to make it for their factory-backed race teams though. I know this from being a Mopar fan first...
Now, if you are talking cross sectional values of the later generation Keith Black, or other NHRA Top Fuel Hemi engines... they are even closer to a real hemisphere.
06-21-2009, 01:40 AM
#87
Administrator - "Tyson"
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No:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4Matic
"4Matic is the name of an AWD four-wheel drive system developed and used by Mercedes-Benz."
That would be like saying "Quattro" is any Audi with four wheels.
06-21-2009, 01:49 AM
#88
Rennlist Member
An Audi Quattro can be swapped to a rear-wheel drive system and it is still the Audi model "Quattro".
"How does that make any sense? S4's from 87-89 were available with 5-speeds." -I was referring to when the S4 and GT were different -some owners of the 90-91 S4 have done a tranny swap to a 5-speed -does that make it a GT instead?
So, what is it you are suggesting here? Return my car to stock everything, so there is no further aggravation to anyone? If so, I'd rather be driving my faster, more valuable R/T.
"How does that make any sense? S4's from 87-89 were available with 5-speeds." -I was referring to when the S4 and GT were different -some owners of the 90-91 S4 have done a tranny swap to a 5-speed -does that make it a GT instead?
So, what is it you are suggesting here? Return my car to stock everything, so there is no further aggravation to anyone? If so, I'd rather be driving my faster, more valuable R/T.
06-21-2009, 01:54 AM
#89
I wondered when this would come up. Hmmm. This should be fun.
06-21-2009, 01:58 AM
#90
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I have no problem with what you do to your car, just with the fact you are calling the 928 4 valve engine a hemi, which it is clearly not.
I am not suggesting that you remove anything from your car, it is your car.
I guess it is just a case of nomenclature for me, call it what it is.
Personality fault on my part I guess, it has just always bothered me when people call things by the wrong name.
Cadalac convertor is just one of many that sets me on edge.