Rob Edwards

FWIW, no problems with connectivity or stability using ST 6.0.11 on my Dell 9300 running XP Pro, though I've only used it for about three afternoons' total time. That's with the laptop plugged into the wall while on the dyno and on Always On power mode while on the battery(ies).

AO

Just had it on the GT. As soon as I switch to the ignition monitor screen, and flip back to the fuel maps, the + is in the lower left corner. If I go to the ignition map screen, and rev the engine, the + comes alive, then I can switch back to the fuel maps and it works. Weird.

Didn't make it to the '87 today. Maybe tomorrow, but there's big rain forecasted...

Oh yeah, I did verify I'm using 6.0.10 - comp[uter is running Win 7 - 64bit.

dprantl

My car setup has the computer connected to an A/C adapter that's connected to the cigarette lighter socket. The bottom-left cursor happens to me regardless of whether I'm on battery power or A/C power. It is also OS independent. It was happening for me with Windows XP 32-bit and now with Windows 7 32-bit. It's not a serious problem by any means, it's just a little annoying sometimes, but nothing switching the screens like I described above can't fix.

Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft

bd0nalds0n

Mine does it too--sometimes the crosshairs seize up in the lower left. The 02 adjustment also seems to peg at +50% (although this seems to be software related and not real-world related as the idle doesn't change. IMO, This seems to have happened with the newest release of the ST2 software.

On a related matter--for those of you who run using the Cat maps--I have a question. When I run the Cat map, if I restart the car with the engine warm, after around 10 seconds I notice the o2 adjustment start to lean out and eventually bottoms out at -20%. The car naturally idles like **** during this time period, because the map has been tuned to be almost perfect at idle. After a minute or so of this, the o2 adjustment starts to work its way positive and eventually ends back up +/- 0.

It seems to me like the LH is trying to take a reading from the o2 sensor before it's been fully heated and is taking that signal and interpreting it as being rich, thus the attempt to lean out the mixture. Then, after a relatively short period, the LH starts to be fed an accurate signal of the fuelling conditions, and the o2 adjustment goes back to where it should be.

I could go into the idle cells and bump them up enough to cancel out the -20% at startup thing, but that seems like it's cheating. Plus, then I'm running around too rich the rest of the time and the LH is going to want/need to make adjustments which necessarily means I run out of adjustment range on one end.

Has anyone else noticed a similar phenomenon at startup? I replaced the o2 sensor with a universal model, and have subsequently re-wired it. No changes before or after.

It's bugged me enough that I've been running around in non-cat mode. The car really likes to run like that. Hard to believe that just a MAF signal plus a good tune can work so well. But as I said, it sort of feels like cheating and I want it to be right.

Thoughts appreciated.

John Speake

Hi Brian, when you tune aroud idle, did you defeat the adaptation when tuning on the cat map ?

AO

Wow. This is exactly what was happening to my car during SITM - except all the time, not just startup. I thought maybe I needed to try re-enabling O2 adaptation, but that only made things worse.

While driving, if I take my foot off the gas, O2 adjustment goes to +3.0% then as soon as I get on the gas, it starts to lean things out until it hits -20.0%. So I recently switced to non-cat mode, and the car runs the best it has in months!

I have not checked the O2 sensor yet. I plan on data logging the NBO2 sensor to see if the input from it indicates richness or not.

Tim Murphy

Hey John, when I tuned at idle I disconnected the o2 sensor.... is this kind of like doing the same thing? I can't remeber if I ever messed with the adaptation.

AO

FYI... Murph has the ST1, not sure if that makes a difference.

John Speake

Hi Tim, Yes pretty much the same as unplugging the O2 sesnor forces the O2 loop to a mid range defualt. SO yes, you can then tune fine.

Everyone - please read the SharkPlotter manual as this also has Jim's recomendations for tuning with regard to adaption etc.

John Speake

No difference..... it's a function of the LH only.

bd0nalds0n

Hi John,

Yes, I've always run with adaptation off because the car doesn't seem to run as well with it on.

I thought I had read a post or the manual from Jim that suggested tuning the non-cat map first, in non-cat mode. I recall the theory being that this should get the map into almost perfect tune in all the cells, so that almost no adjustment by the LH would be necessary. Once the non-cat map was tuned correctly, I copied that map to the cat map, and put the car back in cat mode.

The car runs great in non-cat mode. The non-cat map works okay in the cat map, in cat mode, except for start up. There's also just a minor hesitation when you first hit the accelerator from a stand-still (which I also don't really like). It seems like the car in non-cat mode is much more responsive and snappier.

I never understood why there would be a suggestion to sharktune/sharkplot the cat map while the LH is working away, trying to keep stoich. It seems like that would be introducing a lot of different variables (i.e., different o2 adjustments) that would introduce artifacts into the log. I haven't tried it, though, so maybe I'm missing something totally obvious.

John Speake

Hi Brian, the SP program was developed by Jim as although the Autotune process works pretty well, it can stick some strange values in some cells. The SP program will iron out any such discontinuities.

I suggest you try editting the 72degC value in the Acceleration Enrichment (cat) map (increase the value). That should help with the hesistation when in cat mode.

Does the adaptation not osrt itself out after you've driven 10 miles or so ?

AO

Mine does not. I drove for several hours and it would contantly lean out. Sometime more than others.

I like the non-cat mode now. The car screams like I remember it.

It rained all day yesterday (no garage), so I did not have a chance to see what's happening witht eh NBO2 sensor.

bd0nalds0n

I don't really care about the adaptation (althogh it seems to hurt more than it helps); what's most frustrating is the way the o2 adjustment goes to -20% at startup when in cat mode, especially when warm. But since none of the other people have chimed in with this problem (other than Andrew, who seems to be experiencing it differently than me), I guess I can't conclude that it's not something specific to my unique circumstances.

The LH must have some sort of a timer during which it relies solely on the maps to permit the o2 sensor to warm up. Is there any easy way that future versions of the ST2 program would have a longer timer before taking/using an o2 sensor reading? Or better still, an adjustable timer?

jcorenman

Brian, Andrew: It sounds like your nbO2 sensor is not working properly. In closed-loop (cat) mode, the LH is always fiddling with the O2-adjust number, adding or subtracting a bit of fuel from the table value to try to get the AFR to hover around 14.7. So if it is OK open-loop (non-cat mode) and wanders lean in closed-loop (cat) mode, then the nbO2 is the primary suspect.

The "adaptation" is just a long-term version of the "O2-adjust". If the O2-adjust number is consistently off then the adaptation number will compensate, over time.

Correct-- what you are trying to do, whether using ST's auto-tune, or logging data and using SP, or doing it manually-- is get the map adjusted such that the LH injects the right amount of fuel before any adjustments or adaptation.

If the map is correct in open-loop (non-cat mode) then using the same map in closed-loop mode should result in net-zero O2-adjust numbers-- moving between (ballpark) +4% and -4% as the LH "hunts" for an AFR of 14.7.

If the NBO2 sensor is broken and always says "too rich" then the LH will try to lean the mixture (negative O2-adjust numbers) until it reaches -20%, then recycle from zero. Either the NBO2 is broken, or the LH map is way off-- and the WBO2 will tell you which.

For Sharkplotter there are two different ways to adjust the map. (ST always switches to open-loop for auto-tune). For SP, either run the LH open-loop (non-cat) and adjust the map so that the AFR is 14.7 or wherever you want it (e.g. richer for the higher-load cells), OR let the LH do its O2-adjust'ing and then look at what it is doing, adjusting the map so that the average O2-adjust numbers are zero. SP can do either, working from logged data. What I have found is that open-loop yields better results, but closed-loop is quite useful for checking-- and YMMV.

In either case (open or closed-loop, ST or logging data for SP), "O2 adaptation" MUST be disabled because it will cause changes in fueling which are not logged and not visible. Once tuning and checking is finished, then enable O2-adaptation and let it handle normal variations-- and there are some, with temperature or altitude or MAF aging, whatever.

So if you are not getting good results when switching to closed-loop (cat mode) operation then look to your NBO2 sensor. Idling in closed-loop mode (once warmed up), the O2-adjust and WBO2 numbers should be hunting up and down a couple of times a second. O2-adjust should ideally be hunting +/- 4% or so, and AFR from 14.2 to 15.1 or thereabouts.