How would you build a 1000 hp 928 motor.
06-08-2009, 10:26 PM
#16
Well, if people are stating that 1000hp is not streetable because of detonation and "headroom" issues with street gas, 93 octane - then I agree...
But if you are talking about running ethanol (which would be my requirement) then I think 1000hp is very streetable. The limit would be the physical strength of the assembly only.
But if you are talking about running ethanol (which would be my requirement) then I think 1000hp is very streetable. The limit would be the physical strength of the assembly only.
06-08-2009, 10:28 PM
#17
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Hi
Ummm....... if someone has already done it...you can produce a dyno to prove it of course ?
p.s since when did a 928 5.0 have push rods ? Unless thats American for something I don't understand ?
All the best Brett
06-08-2009, 10:46 PM
#18
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Well I'm actually serious about this-
What I said makes more sense than a 1000 hp engine on the street. Have you ever "driven" one? I have. I ruined one of my z06's with a complete, stroked, twin-turbo'd, intercooled build. I mean "ruined" because at 800hp the car literally becomes "undrivable." It's no fun, it's "work." You can't do any of the fun things you used to, like PUNCH the gas! Corners become "scary." You never know what's going to happen while the car is idling longer than a few minutes (Ever been to "California????????") 1000 hp looks like a lot of fun in the pictures. It even sounds good when you hear it or say it. But the truth most won't tell because of all the aftermarket "quest for power" propaganda technique is the lines cross somewhere.
It's simple physics.
And speaking of physics, think of all the centrifugal force that will be on the crank bearings during a G pulling corner! Parts wear at least 1000 times faster and harder. The block would not be safe to use after only one year from stress.
More physics, no street legal road tire could keep the consistent heat it would require to keep it from spinning out at every stop light, drive through window, inside parking lots, (it gets embarrassing.)
I know you aren't necessarily asking for daily driver, but 1000 hp makes a car driveable, period.
I thought this was just a problem with MY car until I drove a few other guys cars with a 1000 hp. (If you own a "1000up hp" car, your instantly in a clique of others who are "only" qualified drive another guys 1000hp car, silly.)
I thought surely a 1000hp supra with all wheel drive would be able to grip better than mine and it would be like driving a roller coaster around town. Nope. 100k dollar car overheats twice, burns clutches, and breaks half shaft. ALL IN 12 MILES.
1000hp 911 awd drive was slightly better but owner (collector) was afraid to let engine run longer than a few minutes! He just has it on a small platform and starts it at parties as some type of amusement attraction...
So, I'm sorry if I came off rude in way ??? I just didn't want to rain on anyone's parade, because by the looks of your car and your home, that "plan of action" you speak of may come sooner, than later!
For me, super digit horsepower has become a deterioration of a road registered vehicle. I made some pretty good points right?
In my learned experience I say 550 is the perfect number, for this car. Does anyone with a super high HP 928 agree or disagree, because my answer is just my guess/opinion
What I said makes more sense than a 1000 hp engine on the street. Have you ever "driven" one? I have. I ruined one of my z06's with a complete, stroked, twin-turbo'd, intercooled build. I mean "ruined" because at 800hp the car literally becomes "undrivable." It's no fun, it's "work." You can't do any of the fun things you used to, like PUNCH the gas! Corners become "scary." You never know what's going to happen while the car is idling longer than a few minutes (Ever been to "California????????") 1000 hp looks like a lot of fun in the pictures. It even sounds good when you hear it or say it. But the truth most won't tell because of all the aftermarket "quest for power" propaganda technique is the lines cross somewhere.
It's simple physics.
And speaking of physics, think of all the centrifugal force that will be on the crank bearings during a G pulling corner! Parts wear at least 1000 times faster and harder. The block would not be safe to use after only one year from stress.
More physics, no street legal road tire could keep the consistent heat it would require to keep it from spinning out at every stop light, drive through window, inside parking lots, (it gets embarrassing.)
I know you aren't necessarily asking for daily driver, but 1000 hp makes a car driveable, period.
I thought this was just a problem with MY car until I drove a few other guys cars with a 1000 hp. (If you own a "1000up hp" car, your instantly in a clique of others who are "only" qualified drive another guys 1000hp car, silly.)
I thought surely a 1000hp supra with all wheel drive would be able to grip better than mine and it would be like driving a roller coaster around town. Nope. 100k dollar car overheats twice, burns clutches, and breaks half shaft. ALL IN 12 MILES.
1000hp 911 awd drive was slightly better but owner (collector) was afraid to let engine run longer than a few minutes! He just has it on a small platform and starts it at parties as some type of amusement attraction...
So, I'm sorry if I came off rude in way ??? I just didn't want to rain on anyone's parade, because by the looks of your car and your home, that "plan of action" you speak of may come sooner, than later!
For me, super digit horsepower has become a deterioration of a road registered vehicle. I made some pretty good points right?
In my learned experience I say 550 is the perfect number, for this car. Does anyone with a super high HP 928 agree or disagree, because my answer is just my guess/opinion
06-08-2009, 10:48 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Oh, didnt read it all the way through.
Ok, if the S2000 can make 500rwhp with a 2.2 liter, why cant we do the same bolt on blower and make the same HP/liter. He has 17psi boost too! He is making over 200hp/liter!
Thats to the rear wheels too!
mk
Ok, if the S2000 can make 500rwhp with a 2.2 liter, why cant we do the same bolt on blower and make the same HP/liter. He has 17psi boost too! He is making over 200hp/liter!
Thats to the rear wheels too!
mk
06-08-2009, 10:52 PM
#22
Nordschleife Master
I would use the stock bore, but I would machine it out and install a nikasiled sleeve.
I would also have this sleeve machined with a fire ring to 100% seal off the combustion chamber and not have to worry about the HG.
Standalone EFI running speed density/alha N blending for good idle but peak power.
4" runners off the head.
2 staged injector setup (16 injectors) one in the base of each horn for driveability, the other pointing straight down the air horn (F1 style)
Very large twin turbos with a map designed to bring boost on around 4000RPM for peak efficency in the 6500-7000RPM range.
Custom pistons with a compression ratio of 6.5 or 7:1 (3-3.5 bar boost)
Massive custom air/air IC.
Billet cams designed for peak power at 6750RPM.
Taylor drilled crank, or a custom flat plain.
Sodium filled valves.
Massive head work again engineered to match the cams, with a 85% flow differential for peak boost power.
Dry sump with full oil control.
Coolant plumbing reworking.
Rear mount radiator.
Tubular frame front end to allow the ability to run equal length turbo headers, and for better engine bay heat control.
That would give me more than enough room to hit 1000 crank HP.
Now for the rest of it.
Custom aluminum flywheel to run a tilton or a SPEC clutch that would withstand those power levels.
Custom TT,
Custom TT shaft designed for those power levels.
race tranny (muncie 4 spd or the like), with custom diff mated to it to maintain the tranny in the rear and allow me to run a proper LSD that would take the power.
Tubular rear suspension.
2 way externally adjustable shocks all 4 corners.
Removing as much weight as was physically possible!
Twin fuel tanks with the ability to switch between, 1 for race, the other for street.
As well I would never run that much power on the street. So I would have a lower boost setting.
This car would be mainly a track car sooooo.
Full roll cage, fire supression system, Hans head restraint, single piece racing seat. 6 point harness.
Wide body to be able to run some serious rubber to put it to the ground!
Oh wait, I am already doing most of this!
Now I must tell remember 4.15 lbs:1 RWHP is enough for this car!!!!!
I would also have this sleeve machined with a fire ring to 100% seal off the combustion chamber and not have to worry about the HG.
Standalone EFI running speed density/alha N blending for good idle but peak power.
4" runners off the head.
2 staged injector setup (16 injectors) one in the base of each horn for driveability, the other pointing straight down the air horn (F1 style)
Very large twin turbos with a map designed to bring boost on around 4000RPM for peak efficency in the 6500-7000RPM range.
Custom pistons with a compression ratio of 6.5 or 7:1 (3-3.5 bar boost)
Massive custom air/air IC.
Billet cams designed for peak power at 6750RPM.
Taylor drilled crank, or a custom flat plain.
Sodium filled valves.
Massive head work again engineered to match the cams, with a 85% flow differential for peak boost power.
Dry sump with full oil control.
Coolant plumbing reworking.
Rear mount radiator.
Tubular frame front end to allow the ability to run equal length turbo headers, and for better engine bay heat control.
That would give me more than enough room to hit 1000 crank HP.
Now for the rest of it.
Custom aluminum flywheel to run a tilton or a SPEC clutch that would withstand those power levels.
Custom TT,
Custom TT shaft designed for those power levels.
race tranny (muncie 4 spd or the like), with custom diff mated to it to maintain the tranny in the rear and allow me to run a proper LSD that would take the power.
Tubular rear suspension.
2 way externally adjustable shocks all 4 corners.
Removing as much weight as was physically possible!
Twin fuel tanks with the ability to switch between, 1 for race, the other for street.
As well I would never run that much power on the street. So I would have a lower boost setting.
This car would be mainly a track car sooooo.
Full roll cage, fire supression system, Hans head restraint, single piece racing seat. 6 point harness.
Wide body to be able to run some serious rubber to put it to the ground!
Oh wait, I am already doing most of this!
Now I must tell remember 4.15 lbs:1 RWHP is enough for this car!!!!!
06-08-2009, 10:59 PM
#23
Nordschleife Master
Brett,
You implied that a 5.0L engine could not achieve 1000BHP without NOS.
That is what people are jumping on you about.
How about this car http://www.terra2imports.ca/import-j...3943018935.htm
You implied that a 5.0L engine could not achieve 1000BHP without NOS.
That is what people are jumping on you about.
How about this car http://www.terra2imports.ca/import-j...3943018935.htm
06-08-2009, 11:00 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Thats easy, just DOT tires! sure, 1st gear wont be able to do it, but all the other gears can! I have near 400, and it still feels like a dog on the track! Triple the stock 300hp hp would barely give you the same G forces at only 50%higher speeds. (e.g. To have the same acceleration at 50mph as you would at 75mph, you would need 1000hp if you had 330hp to start)
I need 1000hp!!
mk
I need 1000hp!!
mk
06-08-2009, 11:04 PM
#26
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I never said that some one has made 1000 BHP with a 928, what I said was it has been done with a 2 valve push rod engine.
If it can be done with a 2 valve motor you sure as hell can do it with a 4 valve one, just time and money.
It is your blanket statement that "It cant be done with out N2O" shows me how biased you are towards N2O.
Most of the Pro Stock guys are making 1500 HP NA with carbs and gasoline on 500 cubic inches, so you sure as hell can do 1000 with 300 CID, digital fuel injection and a forced induction.
06-08-2009, 11:04 PM
#27
Race Car
No. The answer is 2 supercharged S2000 engines. Higher revs out of the box.
06-08-2009, 11:08 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
It all comes down to being able to know how to "Use" 1000 hp. It would be very streetable to me, as is the 400hp I have now. I only use the power i need, when i need it and when I know the tires can cooperate. I drove a race on slicks in the rain with my car which is probably close to the feeling you might get with 1000hp. But again, the acceleration at 75mph being the same as at 50mph, is not earth shattering nor out of the limits of the tires. Heck, the tires can generate just as much forces during deceleration, so they can certainly handle the forces. You probably just have to get real used to the power and use a careful foot. around town, it wouldnt be an issue as you would only be using part throttle. The engine and clutch wouldnt see any stresses unless you used the 1000hp. the oiling of the crank has more to do with rpm, rather than power. Sure, drag racing 1000hp would probably have some CV joints fail, but thats Drag racing. arent we talking about streetability?
Well I'm actually serious about this-
What I said makes more sense than a 1000 hp engine on the street. Have you ever "driven" one? I have. I ruined one of my z06's with a complete, stroked, twin-turbo'd, intercooled build. I mean "ruined" because at 800hp the car literally becomes "undrivable." It's no fun, it's "work." You can't do any of the fun things you used to, like PUNCH the gas! Corners become "scary." You never know what's going to happen while the car is idling longer than a few minutes (Ever been to "California????????") 1000 hp looks like a lot of fun in the pictures. It even sounds good when you hear it or say it. But the truth most won't tell because of all the aftermarket "quest for power" propaganda technique is the lines cross somewhere.
It's simple physics.
And speaking of physics, think of all the centrifugal force that will be on the crank bearings during a G pulling corner! Parts wear at least 1000 times faster and harder. The block would not be safe to use after only one year from stress.
More physics, no street legal road tire could keep the consistent heat it would require to keep it from spinning out at every stop light, drive through window, inside parking lots, (it gets embarrassing.)
I know you aren't necessarily asking for daily driver, but 1000 hp makes a car driveable, period.
I thought this was just a problem with MY car until I drove a few other guys cars with a 1000 hp. (If you own a "1000up hp" car, your instantly in a clique of others who are "only" qualified drive another guys 1000hp car, silly.)
I thought surely a 1000hp supra with all wheel drive would be able to grip better than mine and it would be like driving a roller coaster around town. Nope. 100k dollar car overheats twice, burns clutches, and breaks half shaft. ALL IN 12 MILES.
1000hp 911 awd drive was slightly better but owner (collector) was afraid to let engine run longer than a few minutes! He just has it on a small platform and starts it at parties as some type of amusement attraction...
So, I'm sorry if I came off rude in way ??? I just didn't want to rain on anyone's parade, because by the looks of your car and your home, that "plan of action" you speak of may come sooner, than later!
For me, super digit horsepower has become a deterioration of a road registered vehicle. I made some pretty good points right?
In my learned experience I say 550 is the perfect number, for this car. Does anyone with a super high HP 928 agree or disagree, because my answer is just my guess/opinion
What I said makes more sense than a 1000 hp engine on the street. Have you ever "driven" one? I have. I ruined one of my z06's with a complete, stroked, twin-turbo'd, intercooled build. I mean "ruined" because at 800hp the car literally becomes "undrivable." It's no fun, it's "work." You can't do any of the fun things you used to, like PUNCH the gas! Corners become "scary." You never know what's going to happen while the car is idling longer than a few minutes (Ever been to "California????????") 1000 hp looks like a lot of fun in the pictures. It even sounds good when you hear it or say it. But the truth most won't tell because of all the aftermarket "quest for power" propaganda technique is the lines cross somewhere.
It's simple physics.
And speaking of physics, think of all the centrifugal force that will be on the crank bearings during a G pulling corner! Parts wear at least 1000 times faster and harder. The block would not be safe to use after only one year from stress.
More physics, no street legal road tire could keep the consistent heat it would require to keep it from spinning out at every stop light, drive through window, inside parking lots, (it gets embarrassing.)
I know you aren't necessarily asking for daily driver, but 1000 hp makes a car driveable, period.
I thought this was just a problem with MY car until I drove a few other guys cars with a 1000 hp. (If you own a "1000up hp" car, your instantly in a clique of others who are "only" qualified drive another guys 1000hp car, silly.)
I thought surely a 1000hp supra with all wheel drive would be able to grip better than mine and it would be like driving a roller coaster around town. Nope. 100k dollar car overheats twice, burns clutches, and breaks half shaft. ALL IN 12 MILES.
1000hp 911 awd drive was slightly better but owner (collector) was afraid to let engine run longer than a few minutes! He just has it on a small platform and starts it at parties as some type of amusement attraction...
So, I'm sorry if I came off rude in way ??? I just didn't want to rain on anyone's parade, because by the looks of your car and your home, that "plan of action" you speak of may come sooner, than later!
For me, super digit horsepower has become a deterioration of a road registered vehicle. I made some pretty good points right?
In my learned experience I say 550 is the perfect number, for this car. Does anyone with a super high HP 928 agree or disagree, because my answer is just my guess/opinion
06-08-2009, 11:11 PM
#29
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Brett,
You implied that a 5.0L engine could not achieve 1000BHP without NOS.
That is what people are jumping on you about.
How about this car http://www.terra2imports.ca/import-j...3943018935.htm
You implied that a 5.0L engine could not achieve 1000BHP without NOS.
That is what people are jumping on you about.
How about this car http://www.terra2imports.ca/import-j...3943018935.htm
He did not imply any thing, he stated it as a fact.
Incorrect as it may be.
"Without Nitrous as a choice..you are NOT going to do it on petrol...."
06-08-2009, 11:12 PM
#30
Race Director
Big HP increases are achieved three very simple ways:
1: More displacement
2: More RPM
3: BOOST..... & more boost
928's already have 5+L and can go to over 7L when custom built....using simple HP/L formulas for boosted engines and you get a rough idea of what is "achievable".....in general 150hp/L is pretty easy with boost.....many tiny turbo race motors are over 250HP/L or more...race supras are nearly 500HP/L but granted those are dyno queens that don't last long....
So a 5.0L properly built twin turbo could easily do 750HP up to maybe 1250HP or more depending on how strong it is built etc.... Increase displacement to 7.0L and close the deck now 150HP/L gets you 1050HP that should be fairly reliable....
The tranny will absolutely NOT hold this type of power.....but since price is no object I would get a custom built Weismann 6 speed sequential transaxle that can hold 1200+HP....with a triple disc Tilton clutch....
1: More displacement
2: More RPM
3: BOOST..... & more boost
928's already have 5+L and can go to over 7L when custom built....using simple HP/L formulas for boosted engines and you get a rough idea of what is "achievable".....in general 150hp/L is pretty easy with boost.....many tiny turbo race motors are over 250HP/L or more...race supras are nearly 500HP/L but granted those are dyno queens that don't last long....
So a 5.0L properly built twin turbo could easily do 750HP up to maybe 1250HP or more depending on how strong it is built etc.... Increase displacement to 7.0L and close the deck now 150HP/L gets you 1050HP that should be fairly reliable....
The tranny will absolutely NOT hold this type of power.....but since price is no object I would get a custom built Weismann 6 speed sequential transaxle that can hold 1200+HP....with a triple disc Tilton clutch....