GregBBRD

Yes, they work great. We've been having them made and using them for almost 2 years.

Where you been Carl?

Fabio421

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...?highlight=ati

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...?highlight=ati

$900 ?? WTF man? The initial small batch price was $450 each.

Carl Fausett

Slowly working my way around the car, I guess.


No, it was $500 ea in 2007. Which today is below my cost, not to mention my time and effort. This isn't a "batch" price, either, because I am not making 10 dampers all the same.
These are one-offs, each made to the engine spec of the customer.

Today, a Standard Small Block Chevy Harmonic damper is $407.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

And Custom dampers like this one are more.

Fabio421

It was $500 each when they were only getting two made. The price went down to $450 after a couple more people joined the group. Read the threads I posted above.

What time and effort are you speaking of? This was already done two years ago by someone else with the same vendor you are buying them from. From the sounds of it, you are not stocking these on your shelves so what is the advantage of buying them from you for twice the cost? I guess it's cool for you that it has your name laser engraved in the side of it but that really adds no value to the end user.

Carl Fausett

I considered this before I posted, of course.

A reasonable person would like to know they are being manufactured by a reputable company, so I wanted all to know they are being made by ATI.

I figured some will call ATI and try to order our damper directly. ATI has agreed to lock our design down, and the 928 Super Damper is only available from us.

Does this mean you cannot call ATI yourself and work through an order for a custom damper for your 928? Of course not. But it willnot be the same as ours.

And, you really need to place a custom damper order now to get current prices.
I really do not think we are out-of-line.

Carl Fausett

Sterling, I promised you I would weigh them for you, and I did.

The stock balancer weighed 6 lb 7 oz. The 928M Super Damper for this engine weighed 7 pounds.

It is heavier, and it should be. This particular damper is for a 6.5 stroker supercharged engine.
The OEM damper is for a 5.0L NA engine.

Each Damper employs two methodologies to absorb the vibrations. Mass dampening and the elastomeric rings. The mass dampening section of this custom damper is heavier as it should be for the larger motor with the longer stroke.

Again - be careful comparing all dampers to each other, or a stock damper to a custom application-specific damper like this one.

Fabio421

So can we still order the dampner that was ordered by Hammer and Mike Simmard or have you "locked that down".

goodspeed928

NICE !!!!!!

6.0-928S

Ok, I didn't want to get involved on this thread but it seems I must respond to a few statements I've read. First of all let me say I respect all that Carl does for us all & for the 928 as a marque. I have nothing to say regarding his price. I sold my batch at cost, obviously he has a business & can't do that.
But as far as the design & capabilities of the damper he's selling versus the ones I got for 5 of us.............?

The dampers I ordered were just as custom as these. They asked me a lot more than 4 questions before producing them. There's a full sheet of questions that I had to fill out, in addition to sending them a stock damper & pulleys for dimensions & fit. My dampers are also rebuildable. And my dampers are also reconfigurable if you change engine components, just like these. I still have the blueprints that ATI sent me to approve. They include the job # in case I wanted to order more.
After reading all of the claims about these dampers I felt I had to say something because it sounded like the dampers I bought for us 5 'listers were inferior. There is no feature in this damper that I've read so far in this thread or in the description on Carl's website that my dampers don't have. And I don't want the first 5 to feel they now have yesterdays dampers. All of this information is still there for anyone to read in the two threads that Fabio included in his earlier post.

Regards, Hammer

Carl Fausett

Good answer, Hammer.

In no way did I mean to suggest that your Dampers were inferior. But in the same breath, I cannot say they are the same, having not ever seen Hammer's harmonic damper nor has Hammer seen mine.

We did consult with their engineers at length to develop this specifically for the Moldex stroker crank, and I do think thats different than Hammer's model. And to anybody who has a custom Damper from Hammer's batch, they should not be worried about it at all.

Lets talk about Fabio's larger question.

It's Fabio's surprise that surprises me.

Hammer touched on it here: Yes, I have a brick-and-morter facility. It is properly commercially zoned, and I have to pay the property taxes and the mortgage on it. I have 3 employees, and they get payroll, FICA, FUTA, Soc Sec, and Worker's Comp insurance. I can go on, but you get the point.

Why then, is anybody surprised that the markup is higher than a single individiual with no overhead who orders a few pieces from a manufacturer (as in this case)?

Or why are some Rennlist members surprised when one of the new work-out-of-their house vendors can low-ball prices against others like me with legitimate tax paying businesses?

I'm not surprised, what surprises me is the people who are surprised.

We do OK. We have quite a few parts that are lower in price at 928 Motorsports than other vendors (including those with and without business overhead). I think my supercharger kits, for example, are consistently the most affordable anywhere of all the vendors.

My last note: new product development costs money. Rennlisters like it when I bring something "new"* forward, but where do you think the $$ for that comes from? From sales of current products.

*new = I do not nor ever have claimed to invent everything. I do invent quite a lot, but not everything. For example: I did not invent the intake manifold spacer, what I did was make them commercially available with an investment of my own money.

In this example: I did not invent the harmonic damper for the 928 (and never said I did) but what I have done is gotten the fixture made at ATI and the crank profile and the pulley profiles and the timing marks and, and , and.... such that now all you need do is tell me 4 things (the HP, the Bore, The stroke, and the RPM range) and thats all you need do. We've done all the rest. So in this case, we have made getting a custom 928 damper much simpler and far more likely that it will fit right on your first try.

RicerSchnitzzle

you can order the hub to your custom specs for $250. you can then add any damper you like. used off a chevy, or new from ATI. might be morwe or less than Carls. might be a better fit for you engine than Carls...or not. but i don't think we should give Carl crap about pricing. as a business man he lives and deis by his pricing. if he can not sell customers on the value, they shop elsewhere. but the bottom line is you can shop elsewhere. if you want to support Carl and feel his price is out of line try a pm to set him straight instead of making him look like a crook. for some the price is fine knowing Carl has done the legwork and gaurantees his product to be a good match for you shark.

for the DIY guy, of course you can often save money over the big 3. i replaced all of my CIS lines for less than Carl's kit, but i have never knocked the price of Carl's kit as it has better connectors and saves a lot of trial and error, measuring and running around town. true value is different for every customer.

BC

Nobody, especially not me, though that.

toofast928

I'm not one to experiment with a balancer. Get it wrong and a fractured crankshaft will be the result. My 5.0L hybrid has a balancer on it that is over 20 years old. Crank is connected to a dual disc clutch (not original set up) and tach bounces off 6500.
Upgrading to a part that has been tested on a 928 is worth the cost to me.
Thanks Carl for your efforts.
Tony

Carl Fausett

Not entirely true and VERY MISLEADING.
http://www.atiracing.com/pdf/custom-damper-form.pdf

The starting price to get their attention is $250. That is not the finished price.

Then you need to also need order the custom damper to fit your custom hub.

Damper + hub + elastomer rings = something you can use.
The minimum custom hub order is $250, and the minimum custom damper order is $250.
The minimum custom damper AND hub will be $500. And the price may come down if you order more than 1 at a time as Hammer said.

My cost (and we are a dealer for them) was about $600 and I did all the dimensional engineering for them!

I do not benefit from ordering more than 1 at a time because I do not believe in "one size fits all". Each damper I spec out is unique to the build and the application.

Fabio421

Just to clarify. I took issue with what I saw as Carl taking the work of someone else ( Hammer and Simard ) and exclaiming that HE has a new product that costs twice as much as it did before and that he has "locked down" anyone trying to buy direct. If Carl had done this all on his own I wouldn't have a problem with it but in my opinion, he didn't. In my opinion, he took what they did and is marketing it as something new and "locking it down" for anyone else interested in buying a super dampner from ATI.

There has been alot of this going around lately here on the boards and it kinda bothers me. Carl didn't like it when another vendor started copying his solid steering rack bushings and solid motor mounts. Now he is ( in my opinion) doing something very similar. I guess I just expect more from people. Maybe I'm making too much of it. I really don't have a dog in this fight. I will not comment in this thread again.

Carry on.