1978 928 in Minerva Blue w/ cork Op-art - 5-speed FS
04-03-2009, 01:12 AM
#46
Rennlist Member
Big tip of the hat to Jim - he drove several hours to inspect this beauty for me and gave me a rather thorough review. 
The Blumaxx is having the timing belt/water pump job done (good catch Jim
), plus new tires and an alignment (thanks Dwayne) - so it'll be good to go when I get to Virginia.
The Blumaxx is having the timing belt/water pump job done (good catch Jim
), plus new tires and an alignment (thanks Dwayne) - so it'll be good to go when I get to Virginia.
04-03-2009, 01:30 AM
#47
Rennlist Member
CONGRATS!! She's a real beauty
Big tip of the hat to Jim - he drove several hours to inspect this beauty for me and gave me a rather thorough review.
The Blumaxx is having the timing belt/water pump job done (good catch Jim), plus new tires and an alignment (thanks Dwayne) - so it'll be good to go when I get to Virginia.
The Blumaxx is having the timing belt/water pump job done (good catch Jim
), plus new tires and an alignment (thanks Dwayne) - so it'll be good to go when I get to Virginia.
04-03-2009, 10:46 AM
#49
Rennlist Member
An Ethics Question
I've followed this thread with interest b/c I think this is one of the few 928's that might actually be a good investment. First year, unmolested, preserved rather than restored, op-art, no sunroof, no rub strips, five speed, already a nice patina - twenty years from now, when it's fifty, it's big bucks at one of the auction houses. If I'd had the money (and storage), I'd have bought it on day one of this thread, sight unseen. Treated right, it could put your grandkids through school..
I'm happy for Ed and if I were he, I'd keep the 86.5 as a DD and make the 78 an occasional driver. Not a garage queen nor a car that never sees rain, but certainly not a daily driver.
Here's my Ethics Question: At what point in the timeline below would it have become _Not OK_ to have bought the car "out from under" Ed?
Would it have been a bad Rennlister who called the seller after Ed had voiced his interest so promptly after the OP? (He asked for inspection help within 20 hours)
How about last Friday afternoon? That morning, Ed had said only "hmmm" in response to "Sounds like your considering picking it up." By noon Ed seems to have decided it was his car to say "no" to and his waiting line of other buyers to arrange. Would it have been sleazy to call the seller - especially in the coy absence of an explicit "Dibs" call.
BTW, can a buyer call "Dibs"? (If I were a seller, I might resent any "warning off" of a potential buyer.)
Early Monday afternoon Ed announced the car was "Not anymore" available, but it was two and a half days before he announced "Done!" How about between those two posts? We don't actually know when the two parties said "It's a deal."
Moot for me, since I couldn't afford it anyway, but the questions are applicable to many opportunities that appear on the list, and few people want to abuse their community and its standards. (How naive is that? So, Bernie Madoff's community was the community of thieves?
)
...I'm happy for Ed and if I were he, I'd keep the 86.5 as a DD and make the 78 an occasional driver. Not a garage queen nor a car that never sees rain, but certainly not a daily driver.
Here's my Ethics Question: At what point in the timeline below would it have become _Not OK_ to have bought the car "out from under" Ed?
Would it have been a bad Rennlister who called the seller after Ed had voiced his interest so promptly after the OP? (He asked for inspection help within 20 hours)
How about last Friday afternoon? That morning, Ed had said only "hmmm" in response to "Sounds like your considering picking it up." By noon Ed seems to have decided it was his car to say "no" to and his waiting line of other buyers to arrange. Would it have been sleazy to call the seller - especially in the coy absence of an explicit "Dibs" call.
BTW, can a buyer call "Dibs"? (If I were a seller, I might resent any "warning off" of a potential buyer.)
Early Monday afternoon Ed announced the car was "Not anymore" available, but it was two and a half days before he announced "Done!" How about between those two posts? We don't actually know when the two parties said "It's a deal."
Moot for me, since I couldn't afford it anyway, but the questions are applicable to many opportunities that appear on the list, and few people want to abuse their community and its standards. (How naive is that? So, Bernie Madoff's community was the community of thieves?
)
04-03-2009, 01:09 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
I've followed this thread with interest b/c I think this is one of the few 928's that might actually be a good investment. First year, unmolested, preserved rather than restored, op-art, no sunroof, no rub strips, five speed, already a nice patina - twenty years from now, when it's fifty, it's big bucks at one of the auction houses. If I'd had the money (and storage), I'd have bought it on day one of this thread, sight unseen. Treated right, it could put your grandkids through school..
I'm happy for Ed and if I were he, I'd keep the 86.5 as a DD and make the 78 an occasional driver. Not a garage queen nor a car that never sees rain, but certainly not a daily driver.
Here's my Ethics Question: At what point in the timeline below would it have become _Not OK_ to have bought the car "out from under" Ed?
Would it have been a bad Rennlister who called the seller after Ed had voiced his interest so promptly after the OP? (He asked for inspection help within 20 hours)
How about last Friday afternoon? That morning, Ed had said only "hmmm" in response to "Sounds like your considering picking it up." By noon Ed seems to have decided it was his car to say "no" to and his waiting line of other buyers to arrange. Would it have been sleazy to call the seller - especially in the coy absence of an explicit "Dibs" call.
BTW, can a buyer call "Dibs"? (If I were a seller, I might resent any "warning off" of a potential buyer.)
Early Monday afternoon Ed announced the car was "Not anymore" available, but it was two and a half days before he announced "Done!" How about between those two posts? We don't actually know when the two parties said "It's a deal."
Moot for me, since I couldn't afford it anyway, but the questions are applicable to many opportunities that appear on the list, and few people want to abuse their community and its standards. (How naive is that? So, Bernie Madoff's community was the community of thieves?)
I'm happy for Ed and if I were he, I'd keep the 86.5 as a DD and make the 78 an occasional driver. Not a garage queen nor a car that never sees rain, but certainly not a daily driver.
Here's my Ethics Question: At what point in the timeline below would it have become _Not OK_ to have bought the car "out from under" Ed?
Would it have been a bad Rennlister who called the seller after Ed had voiced his interest so promptly after the OP? (He asked for inspection help within 20 hours)
How about last Friday afternoon? That morning, Ed had said only "hmmm" in response to "Sounds like your considering picking it up." By noon Ed seems to have decided it was his car to say "no" to and his waiting line of other buyers to arrange. Would it have been sleazy to call the seller - especially in the coy absence of an explicit "Dibs" call.
BTW, can a buyer call "Dibs"? (If I were a seller, I might resent any "warning off" of a potential buyer.)
Early Monday afternoon Ed announced the car was "Not anymore" available, but it was two and a half days before he announced "Done!" How about between those two posts? We don't actually know when the two parties said "It's a deal."
Moot for me, since I couldn't afford it anyway, but the questions are applicable to many opportunities that appear on the list, and few people want to abuse their community and its standards. (How naive is that? So, Bernie Madoff's community was the community of thieves?
)Anyway, a reasonable time in this instance might be a number of days due to the time neccessary to make arrangements for a look at the car. It varies, and there is no right answer.
In the case of this car, the seller had a say too (as they always do I suppose). I was the first to email, and another from here - Dwayne - was the first to call. The seller said he did not want to start a bidding war on the car (he is a gentleman too, and a long time 928 Owner's Club member). Before I knew that Dwayne had contacted the seller, he contacted me and graciously offered to stand aside while I had it looked at. I am most grateful to Dwayne for his gesture. Dwayne likely would have bought the car if I hadn't.
As to the others who were calling dibs - I see nothing wrong with that at all, and I think that is the best procedure, at least thru this forum, so that everyone who is active here knows where in line they are. Of course there is nothing stopping anyone from just contacting any seller of a particular car, and offering to out-bid any prospective buyer, and in fact, I expect that there are often potential buyers who know nothing about this community who would contact a seller and rightfully do just that.
Long and short is the procedure demonstrated in this thread is one of the key reasons that I find this community so valuable and worthwhile
My .0.928
On another note, the Blumaxx will not be a daily driver with me. I recognize the potential long term value of this car. It's not Froggy or Blue 82, but it's a real keeper for the reasons you stated. I will drive it though, as that is what I like to do. I am fortunate in a number of other respects in that I have a good Shleby GT that also competes for my driving love, and even more so - my wife (who initially hated the Blumaxx color combo) told me to not be so quick to sell my 86.5 - she'd like to have some fun with it first
I do have a locally interested person in my current shark, and I'm still on the fence about selling it, but have no fear - Blumaxx is bought bought to keep it whole and as umolested as possible (altho I imagine Dwayne would have restored it back to Foggy status - it would have been nice to see that too)
04-03-2009, 01:17 PM
#51
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Here's my Ethics Question: At what point in the timeline below would it have become _Not OK_ to have bought the car "out from under" Ed?
Would it have been a bad Rennlister who called the seller after Ed had voiced his interest so promptly after the OP? (He asked for inspection help within 20 hours)
How about last Friday afternoon? That morning, Ed had said only "hmmm" in response to "Sounds like your considering picking it up." By noon Ed seems to have decided it was his car to say "no" to and his waiting line of other buyers to arrange. Would it have been sleazy to call the seller - especially in the coy absence of an explicit "Dibs" call.
BTW, can a buyer call "Dibs"? (If I were a seller, I might resent any "warning off" of a potential buyer.)
Early Monday afternoon Ed announced the car was "Not anymore" available, but it was two and a half days before he announced "Done!" How about between those two posts? We don't actually know when the two parties said "It's a deal."
Moot for me, since I couldn't afford it anyway, but the questions are applicable to many opportunities that appear on the list, and few people want to abuse their community and its standards. (How naive is that? So, Bernie Madoff's community was the community of thieves?)
Would it have been a bad Rennlister who called the seller after Ed had voiced his interest so promptly after the OP? (He asked for inspection help within 20 hours)
How about last Friday afternoon? That morning, Ed had said only "hmmm" in response to "Sounds like your considering picking it up." By noon Ed seems to have decided it was his car to say "no" to and his waiting line of other buyers to arrange. Would it have been sleazy to call the seller - especially in the coy absence of an explicit "Dibs" call.
BTW, can a buyer call "Dibs"? (If I were a seller, I might resent any "warning off" of a potential buyer.)
Early Monday afternoon Ed announced the car was "Not anymore" available, but it was two and a half days before he announced "Done!" How about between those two posts? We don't actually know when the two parties said "It's a deal."
Moot for me, since I couldn't afford it anyway, but the questions are applicable to many opportunities that appear on the list, and few people want to abuse their community and its standards. (How naive is that? So, Bernie Madoff's community was the community of thieves?
)If I were the seller, I wouldn't be too happy with this group through some sort of peer pressure allowing only one person to talk to the seller in some sort of order based on when they posted interest about the car. On the other hand, the seller only listed the car for sale on my website (which lead to my post here) and no where else that I know about. Good deal for the buyer, bad deal for the seller.........
If I saw a car listed here for sale and I was interested, I WOULD call the seller and try to buy it no matter who said they had dibs on it! How silly is that???? Had this car been listed somewhere else at the price it was listed for, that probably would have happened and we might not know who was interested in the car.
I have been down this road personally several times when it came to 928s and have had people trying to buy them out from under me - people from this list too. If you want the car, make a deal and if the seller has any integrity at all they will live up to their end of the deal. On one occaision did I ever ask another buyer to back off pursuing a car I was trying to buy only b/c that individuals only interest in the car was to flip it and mine was to restore it and keep it which I did.
My guess is if any other person that expressed interest were REALLY serious about buying this particular car they would have called the seller anyway. Guess there wasn't really strong interest by others, they were just kicking tires.
04-03-2009, 01:24 PM
#52
Instructor
I, for one, am really happy to see how this has all 'gone down'. It sounds like everyone was very cooperative with each other and most importantly, the shark found a great home. I was 4th (or 3rd) as we were calling dibs, but even when I did that, I knew it was taken. I could tell Ed was on the ball and making it happen. Now, if I can only convince him to sell that beautiful Iris Blue to me.....
04-03-2009, 01:55 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
04-03-2009, 02:36 PM
#54
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
FWIW, seller did have it listed at regional PCA classifieds.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for Ed I just don't dig the whole "dibs" thing.....
04-03-2009, 03:10 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
And I agree with you, Chuck, not a big fan of "dibs" either. What is most important is the relationship established with the seller and arrangements made thereof.
Personally, I prefer to move quick and establish myself with the seller (In Ed's case, I'm move as quickly as I could on his behalf). Any way you cut it, it the seller's choice to whom with he wished to do business. I would just make sure I'm in the mix, and if I lose the deal... I'll find another one.
If it came down to me and another RL'r, I would probably not initiate contact nor reply. If it was someone I knew personally, or knew of... I imagine we would have a talk and figure out what is right.
04-03-2009, 04:15 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
I'm glad Ed and all y'all knew right away that I wasn't attacking Ed for some kind of "presumption."
His comment on the seller's behavior was interesting, too. I'd deleted a couple of "if the seller was willing" comments from my post. If I'd been the seller I like to think i'd have behaved the same way - no bidding war and first guy gets first refusal. And good on Dwayne.
Seems like everybody behaved well. Ed's right that's one of the best things about this community. Good on us all.
All that said, I tend to come down with Chuck on the question. I wouldn't have called after Ed's post on Monday but it looks like the _seller_ would have put me in line from the git-go, if I was second on the trigger.
Ed, glad to hear you're attentive to the value of what you've got. That car's a historical document, in a way - early on in the Porsche running change process. Have fun. Maybe invite Dwayne out to take pictures!? ;-)
ww
His comment on the seller's behavior was interesting, too. I'd deleted a couple of "if the seller was willing" comments from my post. If I'd been the seller I like to think i'd have behaved the same way - no bidding war and first guy gets first refusal. And good on Dwayne.
Seems like everybody behaved well. Ed's right that's one of the best things about this community. Good on us all.
All that said, I tend to come down with Chuck on the question. I wouldn't have called after Ed's post on Monday but it looks like the _seller_ would have put me in line from the git-go, if I was second on the trigger.
Ed, glad to hear you're attentive to the value of what you've got. That car's a historical document, in a way - early on in the Porsche running change process. Have fun. Maybe invite Dwayne out to take pictures!? ;-)
ww
04-03-2009, 04:54 PM
#57
Rennlist Member
(i.e., his missus)
04-03-2009, 11:24 PM
#59
Three Wheelin'
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I too am very happy for Ed and his new acqisition. CONGRATULATIONS, ED!
I'm also very happy with the way this transaction was handled by the seller.
THANKS to Chuck Z for posting this original For Sale thread. Without which, I never would have known about the BlueMaxx being for sale and never had a chance to look at it.
When I first saw pictures of the car, I loved it. Even my wife liked it - enough to say "go get it". Since I'm traveling back to the east coast regularly (only 280 miles from the hotel to the car), I decided to take a day and inspect the car and if the weather cooperated, take it for a drive. If everything checked out, I was prepared to offer the seller his full asking price. The seller also made it clear to me that he would not just sell the car to the first person that came along with money - he wanted it to go to a good home where it would be taken care of.
As it turns out, I was not able to take the car for a test drive due to bad weather and I was not inclined to make an offer without a test drive as I was considering driving it back home aprox. 2000 miles. So I told the seller I'd be back the following week and would make arrangements to come back over for the test drive on a good weather day. It was at this point, the seller told me he had another serious buyer - a gentleman from Montana. And that "Montana" had actually e-mailed first, I called first (at about 12:10 and a third party called about 12:40). He admitted he was a little unsure how to proceed with two serious buyers and wanted to avoid getting into a bidding war. The seller wanted to give "Montana" a fair shot since he was first to make contact. I thought that was fair and figured I'd be back next week and would see if "Montana" made an offer. I told the seller if they could not arrive at a mutually satisfactory price, I'd like to be next in line. He agreed and assured me I'd be next. The seller seemed very happy and relieved at this arrangement. Probably because he was virtually guaranteed the car would be sold - one of us would buy it. Based on my interactions with the seller, I believed him to be a man of his word
On the long drive back the hotel, I got to thinking about this "Montana" character. I called the owner up and asked if Montana's name was Ed. He exclaimed, "why yes, it is!" I told the owner I was pretty sure I knew this fellow and assured the owner that if Ed purchased the car, it would go to a very good home indeed and he should not hesitate or worry about what kind of owner it would be going to.
When I got back, I sent Ed a PM and confirmed that he was in fact "the gentleman from Montana". I relayed to Ed the agreement I made with the seller and I'd step aside until he concluded his inspection and offer. The rest is history.
I think the bottom line in all of this is that the seller weilds most, if not all, of the power in deciding how a scenario like this can be played out - they decide the rules of the game. If they are only interested in getting top dollar, they may be happy to initiate a bidding war. If they are picky about how the car will be cared for, they may be selective in who buys it regardless of the price offered. If they are fair-minded, they may proceed in an orderly fashion of first-come-first served until they come across a buyer that meets their minimum requirements. I think anyone that is interested in a car that is offered to the public for sale should be able to contact the seller at anytime. I think it best to find out from the seller the "rules of the game" and then play by the rules.
One last thought, there are plenty of good deals to be had - and there will be others.
Anyway, sorry for the lengthy post, just thougt I'd add my $0.02.
I'm also very happy with the way this transaction was handled by the seller.
THANKS to Chuck Z for posting this original For Sale thread. Without which, I never would have known about the BlueMaxx being for sale and never had a chance to look at it.
When I first saw pictures of the car, I loved it. Even my wife liked it - enough to say "go get it". Since I'm traveling back to the east coast regularly (only 280 miles from the hotel to the car), I decided to take a day and inspect the car and if the weather cooperated, take it for a drive. If everything checked out, I was prepared to offer the seller his full asking price. The seller also made it clear to me that he would not just sell the car to the first person that came along with money - he wanted it to go to a good home where it would be taken care of.
As it turns out, I was not able to take the car for a test drive due to bad weather and I was not inclined to make an offer without a test drive as I was considering driving it back home aprox. 2000 miles. So I told the seller I'd be back the following week and would make arrangements to come back over for the test drive on a good weather day. It was at this point, the seller told me he had another serious buyer - a gentleman from Montana. And that "Montana" had actually e-mailed first, I called first (at about 12:10 and a third party called about 12:40). He admitted he was a little unsure how to proceed with two serious buyers and wanted to avoid getting into a bidding war. The seller wanted to give "Montana" a fair shot since he was first to make contact. I thought that was fair and figured I'd be back next week and would see if "Montana" made an offer. I told the seller if they could not arrive at a mutually satisfactory price, I'd like to be next in line. He agreed and assured me I'd be next. The seller seemed very happy and relieved at this arrangement. Probably because he was virtually guaranteed the car would be sold - one of us would buy it. Based on my interactions with the seller, I believed him to be a man of his word
On the long drive back the hotel, I got to thinking about this "Montana" character. I called the owner up and asked if Montana's name was Ed. He exclaimed, "why yes, it is!" I told the owner I was pretty sure I knew this fellow and assured the owner that if Ed purchased the car, it would go to a very good home indeed and he should not hesitate or worry about what kind of owner it would be going to.
When I got back, I sent Ed a PM and confirmed that he was in fact "the gentleman from Montana". I relayed to Ed the agreement I made with the seller and I'd step aside until he concluded his inspection and offer. The rest is history.
I think the bottom line in all of this is that the seller weilds most, if not all, of the power in deciding how a scenario like this can be played out - they decide the rules of the game. If they are only interested in getting top dollar, they may be happy to initiate a bidding war. If they are picky about how the car will be cared for, they may be selective in who buys it regardless of the price offered. If they are fair-minded, they may proceed in an orderly fashion of first-come-first served until they come across a buyer that meets their minimum requirements. I think anyone that is interested in a car that is offered to the public for sale should be able to contact the seller at anytime. I think it best to find out from the seller the "rules of the game" and then play by the rules.
One last thought, there are plenty of good deals to be had - and there will be others.
Anyway, sorry for the lengthy post, just thougt I'd add my $0.02.
Last edited by Dwayne; 04-04-2009 at 01:55 AM.
