blower issue I
03-13-2009, 12:39 PM
#46
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Hey Brett, I am glad that made since to you but I still am not sure what and where to go form here but I am going to not give up even if I have to replace the whole board, but that may not clear up my issue if the wires going from the G plug are not connected to the head somewhere. It was very technical and I am trying but I am not sure if I am doing things correct I think I am but I still have not found my problem yet. I now have to find out how to remove the board to look at the back of the wires to make sure they are connected and feeding the wires in the G plug I guess. Does that sound like I am understanding him, or am I still way off base? Thanks
03-13-2009, 12:51 PM
#47
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Keeping it simple...
Check for power on G21 (blower relay pin 87) - with the ignition on & Head unit NOT turned off
If there is no power there check for power on G14 (Blower relay pin 86) - with ignition on & Head unit NOT turned off.
You should have power on both under these conditions
Alan
Check for power on G21 (blower relay pin 87) - with the ignition on & Head unit NOT turned off
If there is no power there check for power on G14 (Blower relay pin 86) - with ignition on & Head unit NOT turned off.
You should have power on both under these conditions
Alan
03-13-2009, 02:31 PM
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Tony,
Yes, Terminal 86 goes to G14, so you are making progress in understanding the diagrams. You should not have to disassemble the car inorder to understand the diagrams...
There are two principles of troubleshooting that need to be in play here.
- Understand the system.
- Make tests that split the possible causes into groups, so that you can determine the cause as efficiently as possible.
I would strongly suggest that you make the relay jumper that I described in my last post. It will be a valuable tool for as long as you have your 928.
Once you have the jumper, use it to connect Terminal 30 (power) to Terminal 87 (load, in this case the blower motor circuit). With the toggle switch on so that 30 and 87 are connected, the blower should run. If it does not, find the problem and fix it. Use the diagram and the description in my last message to find where you are losing the power.
Don't spend much time worrying about Terminal 86 until you know that the circuit from Terminal 87 to the blower motor is OK.
Yes, Terminal 86 goes to G14, so you are making progress in understanding the diagrams. You should not have to disassemble the car inorder to understand the diagrams...
There are two principles of troubleshooting that need to be in play here.
- Understand the system.
- Make tests that split the possible causes into groups, so that you can determine the cause as efficiently as possible.
I would strongly suggest that you make the relay jumper that I described in my last post. It will be a valuable tool for as long as you have your 928.
Once you have the jumper, use it to connect Terminal 30 (power) to Terminal 87 (load, in this case the blower motor circuit). With the toggle switch on so that 30 and 87 are connected, the blower should run. If it does not, find the problem and fix it. Use the diagram and the description in my last message to find where you are losing the power.
Don't spend much time worrying about Terminal 86 until you know that the circuit from Terminal 87 to the blower motor is OK.
03-13-2009, 02:50 PM
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Alan , I tested G21 with 87 and no power with car running and switch in center position and I tested G14 with 86 pin the same way no power, what next?, do I have to remove the whole panel and look behind to see if the wires are burn't off or what? I tried to junp 30 to 86 and it made a starnge sound so I stopped jumping anythng, I did try to test both 86 and 87 to ground with unit in center postion and car running ( seperate ground than on relay MP) and no power on either one, tried the jump 30 to 87 and no power? If I remove the whole panel should the battery be disconnected? G21 is the big red wire to the blower switch plug I am not sure where G14 ends, I think on the head unit some where, I do have power on the rear plug of the head unit( the one that looks like a computer plug. Which I think is the temp control section of the head unit. To make sure I am using G you start with a on the left side of the panel and go up 2 every sections like A,B.C.D.E.F.G. correct mine is green and black I think 2 being the right side and 1 being the left side of the plug I have not removed that plug, should I to see if it is fried or not? I think I am getting the hang of this but I stiil don't know what to do to correct the no power on 86 problem, or the 87 for that matter. In the flat plug for the blower switch there is a big red wire the one first near the back of the head. after I changed the resister wires should any of the wires in that plug have benn changed or they would stay the same as always correct. I removed 8 completly like WallyP said and put 6 in the 8 position in resister pack and then pluged it back in. I think my issue is power to 87 pin and maybe 86 pin as well but until 87( power to the blower switch) works I won't know about 86 or should I know about 86 even if 87 don't work? but either way I don't have power on either one only on 30 is there power meaning (I think) my fuse is good. what do you suggest I do next? I am trying real hard to solve this and it will be great when I do. Removing the whole panel looks like a real job unless you can just unscrew the top screws and lower it forward to see behind it without removeing all of the harness plugs. Please let me know, Thanks so much and please excuse any mis spelled words I don't type real well. Thanks for putting up with a beginner like myself I am trying real hard and I want to solve this because I think it will help alot in the future. Thanks again to both you and WallyP. for trying so hard, just so you know when i was jumping some wires like 30 to 86 I heard a sound like elctrical contact scratc and a smal sound like a jammbed up blower trying to start. But I know my blower is free is blows like the dickins on defroster mode.
03-13-2009, 03:01 PM
#51
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Alan , I tested G21 with 87 and no power with car running and switch in center position and I tested G14 with 86 pin the same way no power, what next?, do I have to remove the whole panel and look behind to see if the wires are burn't off or what? I tried to junp 30 to 86 and it made a starnge sound so I stopped jumping anythng, I did try to test both 86 and 87 to ground with unit in center postion and car running ( seperate ground than on relay MP) and no power on either one, tried the jump 30 to 87 and no power? If I remove the whole panel should the battery be disconnected? G21 is the big red wire to the blower switch plug I am not sure where G14 ends, I think on the head unit some where, I do have power on the rear plug of the head unit( the one that looks like a computer plug. Which I think is the temp control section of the head unit. To make sure I am using G you start with a on the left side of the panel and go up 2 every sections like A,B.C.D.E.F.G. correct mine is green and black I think 2 being the right side and 1 being the left side of the plug I have not removed that plug, should I to see if it is fried or not? I think I am getting the hang of this but I stiil don't know what to do to correct the no power on 86 problem, or the 87 for that matter. In the flat plug for the blower switch there is a big red wire the one first near the back of the head. after I changed the resister wires should any of the wires in that plug have benn changed or they would stay the same as always correct. I removed 8 completly like WallyP said and put 6 in the 8 position in resister pack and then pluged it back in. I think my issue is power to 87 pin and maybe 86 pin as well but until 87( power to the blower switch) works I won't know about 86 or should I know about 86 even if 87 don't work? but either way I don't have power on either one only on 30 is there power meaning (I think) my fuse is good. what do you suggest I do next? I am trying real hard to solve this and it will be great when I do. Removing the whole panel looks like a real job unless you can just unscrew the top screws and lower it forward to see behind it without removeing all of the harness plugs. Please let me know, Thanks so much and please excuse any mis spelled words I don't type real well. Thanks for putting up with a beginner like myself I am trying real hard and I want to solve this because I think it will help alot in the future. Thanks again to both you and WallyP. for trying so hard, just so you know when i was jumping some wires like 30 to 86 I heard a sound like elctrical contact scratc and a smal sound like a jammbed up blower trying to start. But I know my blower is free is blows like the dickins on defroster mode.
Try hittig the Enter key once in awhile to break up your posts into paragraphs.
They are far too difficult to read in their current format.
03-13-2009, 03:03 PM
#52
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Thanks WallP, your right I am starting to understand with both of you help me and again thanks for your patience. I will make the tested you desibed as soon as i can get to a store for the items I need like the flat plugs to connect to ends of the wires, I am going to re read on how to make it i need a toggle switch and I am not sur if on flat plug would go to one side of one wit and then the other o the other side of the other end on a differnt wire like white on on plug and black on the other end with toggle in the middle to switch them one and off I willask at the hardware store maybe they can show me how top do it or I will figure it out. Thanks again. I am trying and I will get it? when I connect 30 to 87 does the key need to be on because 30 has power always with or without the key?
03-13-2009, 03:08 PM
#53
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As Wally previously noted - do not jump 30-86 or 86-87 - only 30-87.
Are you sure your fuse 17 is good (replace it)? - you can probe the fuse output (bottom pin) with the fuse in place - there is a dimple cutout in the fuse that lets a DMM probe pin connect directly to the fuse pin...
In this case the 30 connection always has power - no need to turn ignition on for this specific test...
With 30-87 jumped on the blower relay socket (BTW you are reading the labelling on the relay socket correctly right? look for the label & arrow pointing to the socket). You should have power to the blower switch and to pin 4 of the resistor pack? depending on the position of the blower switch you should also have power to pins 1, 5, 7 and 6 (now prob. moved to pin 8 location).
Also note there is tiny lettering on the relay socket front plate with the terminal designations.
If you do not have power at the relay pack - at least to pin 4 then your wiring is suspect somewhere.
You must disconnect the battery when working on the central electric panel. Best way to inspect the back is to remove all the plugs (operate the red release tab in the center bottom) and unbolt the top supplies (red wires) and the 2 retaining screws - lift and hinge forward - there are also several grounds connected to the ground point above the panel.
Alan
Are you sure your fuse 17 is good (replace it)? - you can probe the fuse output (bottom pin) with the fuse in place - there is a dimple cutout in the fuse that lets a DMM probe pin connect directly to the fuse pin...
In this case the 30 connection always has power - no need to turn ignition on for this specific test...
With 30-87 jumped on the blower relay socket (BTW you are reading the labelling on the relay socket correctly right? look for the label & arrow pointing to the socket). You should have power to the blower switch and to pin 4 of the resistor pack? depending on the position of the blower switch you should also have power to pins 1, 5, 7 and 6 (now prob. moved to pin 8 location).
Also note there is tiny lettering on the relay socket front plate with the terminal designations.
If you do not have power at the relay pack - at least to pin 4 then your wiring is suspect somewhere.
You must disconnect the battery when working on the central electric panel. Best way to inspect the back is to remove all the plugs (operate the red release tab in the center bottom) and unbolt the top supplies (red wires) and the 2 retaining screws - lift and hinge forward - there are also several grounds connected to the ground point above the panel.
Alan
Last edited by Alan; 03-13-2009 at 03:43 PM.
03-13-2009, 03:11 PM
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WallyP I thought you had told me to remove number 8 pin from resister plug because I do not ned it. and to put number 6 pin in the number 8 slot of the plug is this not so?
I am preety sure we had this talk but maybe it was Alan, but i was told to do it by someone because the new resister pack needs to be modified to work like my old pack. correct me if I am wrong does it or not need to be modified? I have the newer style resister pack not the old one that was in the car to start with.
I am preety sure we had this talk but maybe it was Alan, but i was told to do it by someone because the new resister pack needs to be modified to work like my old pack. correct me if I am wrong does it or not need to be modified? I have the newer style resister pack not the old one that was in the car to start with.
03-13-2009, 03:17 PM
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Side issue - the screw you are missing for the resistor pack is a metric machine screw, 4mm by 18mm. They can fall into the cowl area under the pack. Try fishing down there for a minute with a magnetic pick-up tool. There is a ledge under the pack that is not too deep, but it drops off to the right.
03-13-2009, 03:44 PM
#56
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Perhaps Tony a re-read of the thread, make your own notes and with the Circuit diagram in hand go out to the car.
Wally's posts are troubleshooting the exisiting system to ensure your getting power where it needs to be with the blower switch on less than full and the heater selection anywhere other than defrost or off.
Alan's posts are to help with using the new resistor pack with the old wiring. It's the wiring of the connector that requires changing so the new pack will work. You need to do this at least.
Understand how the blower basically works............its always turning, even when the blower switch is on '0' and the selector is not off and not in defrost. With the switch on settings 0 through 4 the blower motor increases in rpm. On selecting defrost the blower defaults to max blower rpm.
Wally's posts are troubleshooting the exisiting system to ensure your getting power where it needs to be with the blower switch on less than full and the heater selection anywhere other than defrost or off.
Alan's posts are to help with using the new resistor pack with the old wiring. It's the wiring of the connector that requires changing so the new pack will work. You need to do this at least.
Understand how the blower basically works............its always turning, even when the blower switch is on '0' and the selector is not off and not in defrost. With the switch on settings 0 through 4 the blower motor increases in rpm. On selecting defrost the blower defaults to max blower rpm.
03-13-2009, 03:45 PM
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Alan
03-13-2009, 03:46 PM
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Alan, I was told that if I had power on 30 then my fuse was good I tested the fuse with light tester and it lights up on to and bottom and 30 has power so I think someone told me that means the fuse is good I have power on 30 so I guess that means the fuse is good.
Well I am looking at the relay itself and the back of the relay has the numbers on it to tell me which slot is what unless they a labeled it wrong on the relay then I should be using the right slots. I can go from seperate ground to 30 and I have 12.99 vdc on 30 in the relay slot so I think that means my fuse is good. I will try to jump from 30 to 87 and see if the blower runs should the car be started or at least the key on and the head set in the middle or anywhere except far left or right correct? Thanks
Well I am looking at the relay itself and the back of the relay has the numbers on it to tell me which slot is what unless they a labeled it wrong on the relay then I should be using the right slots. I can go from seperate ground to 30 and I have 12.99 vdc on 30 in the relay slot so I think that means my fuse is good. I will try to jump from 30 to 87 and see if the blower runs should the car be started or at least the key on and the head set in the middle or anywhere except far left or right correct? Thanks
03-13-2009, 03:57 PM
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OK lets focus on power to the resister pack what feeds the power to the resister pack I thought it came from the blower switch which has no power going to it either, pin 87 G21 I believe, so if I have no power to the blower switch then I most like would have no power to the reisister plug correct or am off base again.
03-13-2009, 04:01 PM
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Alan G21 big red wire in plug of relay has no power to it i will try to jump 30 to 87 and see if it help? correct me if i am wron on the pluf looking at it the far left slot is 30 and the far right slot is 87 pin G21? that is what the relay says anyway. I am going to go try jumping 30 to 87 now.