FlyingDog

Really, you have to slip Toyos? You slide the back end around in a stick axle Mustang whether you want to or not, no matter what tire you're on. The CMC driver example I gave... the guy knows how to drive on Toyos. He has been doing it and winning constantly for a few years in that car. The only reason we even made the comparison is because Toyos are too expensive to burn up practicing.

At VIR, you cannot run a 20+ minute race on A6s in a heavy car. They will overheat and grease up. The TT guys love them because they can run a couple fast laps, cool them for a few laps, then run some more fast laps. R6s will last the whole race at peak performance if you do not abuse them.

R6s are not as fast as Michelin slicks. Toyos aren't remotely in the same league. Even Hoosier slicks are about 1 second faster than R6s. That is according to several GTS3 and GTS4 BMW drivers who have tested back to back. Michelin slicks are even faster than the Hoosiers. The Synergy guys say there is a 3-6 second difference between Hoosier GACs (basically a thicker tread non-DOT R6) and the Michelin and Dunlop slicks they use. They have hours upon hours of test data to prove it and can predict at what lap each will drop off in speed.

IcemanG17

I've been doing some research on the R888 vs the RA1....it seems the RA1 needs to be slipped more or that the RA1 likes to slide vs the R888 DOES NOT.....so the driving style between the two is quite different..... Granted I have only driven on used RA1's and I did not like them very much, but the R888's are quite impressive...even with my rookie experience.....they are so grippy in fact that my racer friend Scott who rode with me for two sessions believes I can take turn 8 FLAT with just a slight lift at turn in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Of course I don't have anywhere near the stones to try that...but damm that would make one hell of fast lap if I could take 7 flat (not that hard I've done it) and 8 nearly flat....but turn 8 at maybe 110mph does seem risky....maybe with a big wing?

BC

RA1s are supposed to not be available soon.

mark kibort

Guys, there are not that much of a different between tires. sure, there are subtle differences. I would have no problem slapping on a set 5 min before race time and go out and running a race.

as far as the comparisons, look no farther than the SpeedWC GT and touring guys. seth, who runs a BMW in WCTouring, is a good bench mark. he says they are similar. Not a lot of difference. certain things were different as far as them going away at the end of the race, and having more initial bite. Basically, they are the exact same compound, with the screwy tread design.

Full tread, and all bets are off.

By the way, you cant run turn 8 flat out in any car, but a miata! the wing allows for a more safe entry and exit. 100mph is my max and thats over the last 7 years. telemetry from Kent jordans car verifies this, and he is 4x4 with a 550hp set up!. rylan in his 390 rwhp 2700lb monster S2000 does this too.
all cars can go through at near this speed, hoosier or toyo.

7 is an easy turn for flat out, even in a high hp car. it was a little hard to get the confidence with mine, but by race time, it was not an issue. With the 306rwhp 5 liter, it was a no brainer, almost possible on the damp track (you can see WOT with my car with the AF light on the dash on the videos)

mk

mark kibort

. what a concept , huh?

yes, I know all about you CMC guys, i used to run with many of you in our NASA races when porsches and CMC used to run together sometimes!

anyway, you are making my point below. real slick vs good DOT tire is about 2 seconds. The way I see it, and many like me, they guess slicks are best, followed 2 seconds or so by the hooseir followed by another second comes the toyo. (best case). Put a few heat cycles and the toyo and hoosier are pretty near equal. put a bunch on them and give me the toyos anyday!

I think we are saying the same thing basically, but there is no way, no how, a 3 second difference between the toyos or hoosiers. its up to about 1, and that has been proven many times by a lot of good drivers. No doubt your cmc mustang guy is a good driver, but there might be something with that size or the type of toyo that he is running. after all there were some subtle changes to the compond that SpeedGT and touring run on those 17 and 18" rims.

If you look at ALMS GT2 cars. they run 1:24ish at laguna. the GT3 RSR is kind of like the speedGT WC porscheGT3. it runs 1:29. but it has less hp and is narrow, doesnt have any of the go fast goodies, and is heavier. Its predicted if the WC GT ran on slicks, they would be in the 1:27s. a better test was when the Supercup GT3s (no upgraded engine) run the michelin slicks they run 1:31s about 2 seconds slower than the speed gt Gt3. this is a very good comparison as many of the porsche guys know how much time the SpeedGT GT3 upgrades give the car. If when a speed GT GT3 car runs Laguna and its a stock GT3 supercup, running on DOT Toyos, it runs about 2 seconds slower. (1:34 is about what it runs). also, we have a lot of data from our 928s , both on the high hp side and lower hp side verifying this. None of the times here at laguna have ever surprised me. Most are very easily predicted based on driver, car and tires.

If i could be guaranteed 2 full seconds by using a hoosier over the fairly new toyos, I would buy a set tomorrow, but in fact that wouldnt be the gain. If I was very lucky, it would be 1 second at most.

mk



As far as the "A" series...... go tell Darrel anderson and his Griggs racing mustang. 30min race, all out and no problems on a 85 degree day and pretty warm track! 1:43s at sears and 1:34s at laguna seca. all on As. 700hp nascar motor powered mustang. I think they might be a pretty good secret if you trust the tire wont fly apart. I dont know enough about their construction, but they seem to trust them at Griggs!
mk