911tracker85

BrendanC
this is a late posting, but when I saw the comment above I just could not resist posting one of my favorite links.

http://bewareofthedoghouse.com/video.aspx

BC

Nice!

I have a great program to stay out of the doghouse while still getting most everything done for me. I would call it a sort of Admiration and respect protocol, mixed in with a good helping of humility. Compliments on not just her looks and physical talents, but also how well she does simple tasks like folding.

dprantl

This is actually something I looked into. I ended up choosing a UMPC. Not only are they similar in size, they run full-blown Windows and you can pretty much set up any kind of display you want. In addition to that, it's a real PC so it can play videos, run GPS, etc, etc. I found a like-new eo v7110 for $200 on craigslist and I just run TechEdge's WinLog on it.

Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft

BC

It doesn't seem like an important thing to run an entire computer in a car, at least not for me. Unless I find that I need constant access to the tuning software, which I hope I do not.

dprantl

Well, the point there is that it is a complete computer and can be that if you want. Or, it can be just a gauge display if you want. It's completely customizable.

Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft

Louie928

Brendan,
That's a nice display unit, and having quick access to the tuning software is more of a necessity than you might think. I seem to be really slow and dense on this tuning stuff, but I'm now at the point where I can "think" I'm done with tuning. The keyboard is usually behind the passenger seat and not on top of it. The car has 10,000 miles, 2+ years have passed, and the tuning is really close to being done. Maybe a few tweaks still needed on really hot days which don't happen very often here. If this unit had been available when I started, I'd have used it. As it is, I'm very glad I went with the on-board computer running XP, my own display software, and can access the tuning software whenever something just doesn't seem right. This could save you a lot of time and trouble in the long run.

Have you looked at the DTA ECU? The model I use is a P8Pro. That one isn't made anymore. Their S60 and S80 has more features and is supposed to work better. It's made in the UK. The more favorable US$ to GBP makes the price not too bad.
http://www.dtafast.co.uk/
A DTA forum is here where support is pretty good.
http://dtaforum.psycode.com/

BC

I have looked at the DTA. All the way back to 2002-2003. The P8Pro I think.

Their price was high then. Thier newer units seem great, but the support still seems slim. The forum is new?

On the display - you are saying that an onboard CPU is good so you can always go in an check around the tuning software?

FlyingDog

I'm with Louie. The feature set of the DTA stuff is great. I don't know if he still is, but Louie used to be a DTA dealer. The biggest knock I've heard on them is the programming software being archaic.

BC

Thats a good point.

Is the DTA still above 2k Louie?

Does the cylinder trim have load and rpm cells? Or is it a percentage change across the rpm range?

Can I run 8 sequential injectors and 8 sequential coils? Can the unit handle the contained-ignitors of the LS2 coils?

Can the unit run closed loop Lambda with a WB02 sensor? Can I use 2 WB02 inputs at once (2 banks of V8)?

Will it take any configuration of Crank and Cam sensing teeth?

Louie928

Hi Brendan,
Support direct from the factory is slim. There are gaps in the documentation too. The forum has been around for as long as I've been involved with the DTA ECUs, and that has to be about 5 years now. I had the unit and was trying to figure out how to connect and use it probably 3 years before I started the engine. The forum is the best bet for support. It's about the closest I've seen to Rennlist. There are several DTA power users and a couple of dealers involved. They are quick to respond and someone usually has a good answer. Not all my questions got answers, but I eventually figured it out.

My opinion is that it is extremely handy to be able to access the tuning software on your standalone ECU whenever you have the car out. You could take a laptop with you and connect the USB cable and have it balanced on the seat or your wife's lap so you can fuss with the slight stumble just off idle that only happens after you start the engine after it's been shut off a half hour, or fix the flat spot when you are going up a certain hill at 45 mph. It is much easier if you can have a tuning map, and gauge display to glance at when you are driving. Much better if it is on a screen in your normal line of sight, not on the floor. You can see what load/rpm you are at, and other correction map values, temperatures, etc. Some of the combinations of load, rpm, timing, that cause a problem only occur for a split second. Everything is dynamic. Then you can later (not while you are diving) make corrections. Pull off the road and fix it. Logging works to a certain degree, but if you accelerate up a slight hill and you hear pinging, you can't go back to the log file and see where the pinging occurred. Maybe if you could log knock retard like the Sharktuner. Much easier to glance at your display and see what load and RPM was when the pinging happened, and make adjustment to your timing map. Maybe it pings when the engine is hot, but not when cold. Adjust your timing temp compensation map. When you drive to higher altitude, you can use more spark advance because the pressure is lower. How much? you have to go try it and set the timing altitude comp table. Using MAP as load helps some for that. This sort of tuning work is going to be quite intense for a while and gradually diminishes as you get the tuning worked out better and better. You can use a laptop, but it's very unhandy and probably not very safe because you are always looking over at it.

Louie928

I used to be a dealer, but inactive for several years. I'm not trolling for business. It's too much trouble. I may be able to get a DTA at less than full cost though. I haven't tried in a year or so. The US distributor is in Florida.

The programming software does have the look of a DOS app ported to Windows with VB. It is functional, but not very pretty. The S60/80 is an expansion of the P8Pro software and has some nice features. Still looks a little clunky and has no shaded 3D maps, or other fancy things. I've emailed the DTA head guy with suggestions for improvements and get no promise for changes. If it works, they don't want to fix it further.

Louie928

Brendan,
1) I don't know a current price. I haven't checked in about a year and a half. IIRC, the S80 cost was around $1700 then.

2) Cylinder fuel trim is a %. Not a full RPM/load map for each cylinder.

3) S80 does 8 sequential injectors and 8 separate coils. I believe you can have 2 injectors (staged) for each cyl on an 8 cyl engine if you want. AFAIK, it works directly with high impedance injectors only. I don't know what contained-ignitors are. The DTA will output either a standard 5 volt pulse to a coil driver such as for the Bosch Cayenne coils, or will drive a coil directly like I use for my Ford coils. Dwell time is settable if you drive the coils directly. There are many auxiliary inputs and outputs. These can be software configured to do just about whatever you want; extra injectors, waste gate control, fan control, water injection, traction control, launch control, etc.

4) Yes, closed loop operation. It has dual WB O2 inputs, one for each bank. I asked the same question of the factory, and was told each WB closed loop controlled the injector pulse widths (mixture) for the cylinders on that side based on firing order.

5) I'm not sure about it taking any configuration of crank and cam sensor. That may be a tall order. I do know it takes all of the popular ones such as 60-2, 36-1, plus many of the very odd combinations that have cropped up. Rover is weird and it does that. It may not do the 100 tooth that the '85/85 has. My P8Pro will not accept teeth number greater than 60. I don't know whether that has been changed for the S80.

BC

Thanks Louie. I did not see this.

Technically speaking, RPM/load mapping for each cylinder proved to be VERY imporant to Todd, and I always have looked to his advice on the ECU for the 928.

The VIPEC V88 and Link G4 extreme DO have that capability - though it is difficult to really use it properly.

Thanks!