consensus on alignment
01-19-2009, 01:13 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
consensus on alignment
as i'm just before alignment to be done i wonder if we could achieve here a consensus on alignment :
we are speaking of a "track car" : so let's assume :
- big semi-slicks as "300" front, "330" rear
- heavy springs as 800/400
- adjustable schocks
- adjustable sway bars
- light car as 2700 # to 3000 #
What would be a good initial "start setup" for Camber,Caster,Toe and ride height ?
Let us also assume the choosen ride height is possible : as wel practical on the car as useable on the track.
I'm looking forward to see your opinion guys ! Thanks!
Norbert
we are speaking of a "track car" : so let's assume :
- big semi-slicks as "300" front, "330" rear
- heavy springs as 800/400
- adjustable schocks
- adjustable sway bars
- light car as 2700 # to 3000 #
What would be a good initial "start setup" for Camber,Caster,Toe and ride height ?
Let us also assume the choosen ride height is possible : as wel practical on the car as useable on the track.
I'm looking forward to see your opinion guys ! Thanks!
Norbert
Last edited by belgiumbarry; 01-19-2009 at 02:33 PM.
01-19-2009, 01:52 PM
#2
Nordschleife Master
Hello Norbert,
I would try to start with 150mm ride height front and rear.
I think you may want to up your rear spring rate abit though, I think 500# would be better.
For the front settings though, -1.2-1.5 deg chamber, 4 deg caster, and 0.1-0.2 toe in.
For the rear, -1 deg camber, and I run 0 deg toe for the rear.
HTH.
I would try to start with 150mm ride height front and rear.
I think you may want to up your rear spring rate abit though, I think 500# would be better.
For the front settings though, -1.2-1.5 deg chamber, 4 deg caster, and 0.1-0.2 toe in.
For the rear, -1 deg camber, and I run 0 deg toe for the rear.
HTH.
01-19-2009, 02:36 PM
#3
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Sorry Colin, i do have 450# in the rear i think... should check it. 
01-19-2009, 02:58 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
150mm ride hight???? He did say track car right?
125mm front 140mm rear ride hight
2 degrees neg camber in the rear
1.7 mm camber in the front
slightly neg toe front and rear(within specs)
caster, spec is fine
anything else, and you will be sorry, for a couple of reasons.
if you start lowering the car, which you will if its a race car the toe will go out.
It wont handle right, and you will chew up the outside edges of the tires.
You will end up with what is proven to work. (Ive done this on 4 race cars with over 3000 cummulative race laps ) Tire wear is good and the cars are fast and neutral. You can see how the cars work in the videos we post too.
Where you will end up is where we have found the fastest settings.
2 degree front camber
2 degree rear camber
110mm ride hight front and 135mm rear ride hight.
caster, over 4
toe 1/8th" toe in front and rear. (basically toward the 0 side of the spec's tollerance)
It is a little better to be softly sprung in the rear, but 400 might be too light. you would need an aftermarket rear bar to stiffen out some roll. Im 450 and wish it was 500lbs with my fronts being 750 wishing they were 800. the rest can be tuned with shock settings and bar.
mk
125mm front 140mm rear ride hight
2 degrees neg camber in the rear
1.7 mm camber in the front
slightly neg toe front and rear(within specs)
caster, spec is fine
anything else, and you will be sorry, for a couple of reasons.
if you start lowering the car, which you will if its a race car the toe will go out.
It wont handle right, and you will chew up the outside edges of the tires.
You will end up with what is proven to work. (Ive done this on 4 race cars with over 3000 cummulative race laps ) Tire wear is good and the cars are fast and neutral. You can see how the cars work in the videos we post too.
Where you will end up is where we have found the fastest settings.
2 degree front camber
2 degree rear camber
110mm ride hight front and 135mm rear ride hight.
caster, over 4
toe 1/8th" toe in front and rear. (basically toward the 0 side of the spec's tollerance)
It is a little better to be softly sprung in the rear, but 400 might be too light. you would need an aftermarket rear bar to stiffen out some roll. Im 450 and wish it was 500lbs with my fronts being 750 wishing they were 800. the rest can be tuned with shock settings and bar.
mk
Hello Norbert,
I would try to start with 150mm ride height front and rear.
I think you may want to up your rear spring rate abit though, I think 500# would be better.
For the front settings though, -1.2-1.5 deg chamber, 4 deg caster, and 0.1-0.2 toe in.
For the rear, -1 deg camber, and I run 0 deg toe for the rear.
HTH.
I would try to start with 150mm ride height front and rear.
I think you may want to up your rear spring rate abit though, I think 500# would be better.
For the front settings though, -1.2-1.5 deg chamber, 4 deg caster, and 0.1-0.2 toe in.
For the rear, -1 deg camber, and I run 0 deg toe for the rear.
HTH.
01-19-2009, 07:13 PM
#5
Nordschleife Master
Mark,
The specs I gave were more for a track style car that is street legal and driven on the street every now and then, I say 150mm mainly due to the fact of having to clear the odd speed bump. Lower than this and up here you will never make it, possibly not even in and out of some of the gas stations.
What you have said about spring rates at the bottom of your post is exactly what I recommended in my first post.
I do agree with you on your alignment specs, if and only if the car really is only ever use on the track. If you drive long distances with your specs the insides of the tires will be done fairly quick.
The specs I gave were more for a track style car that is street legal and driven on the street every now and then, I say 150mm mainly due to the fact of having to clear the odd speed bump. Lower than this and up here you will never make it, possibly not even in and out of some of the gas stations.
What you have said about spring rates at the bottom of your post is exactly what I recommended in my first post.
I do agree with you on your alignment specs, if and only if the car really is only ever use on the track. If you drive long distances with your specs the insides of the tires will be done fairly quick.
150mm ride hight???? He did say track car right?
125mm front 140mm rear ride hight
2 degrees neg camber in the rear
1.7 mm camber in the front
slightly neg toe front and rear(within specs)
caster, spec is fine
anything else, and you will be sorry, for a couple of reasons.
if you start lowering the car, which you will if its a race car the toe will go out.
It wont handle right, and you will chew up the outside edges of the tires.
You will end up with what is proven to work. (Ive done this on 4 race cars with over 3000 cummulative race laps ) Tire wear is good and the cars are fast and neutral. You can see how the cars work in the videos we post too.
Where you will end up is where we have found the fastest settings.
2 degree front camber
2 degree rear camber
110mm ride hight front and 135mm rear ride hight.
caster, over 4
toe 1/8th" toe in front and rear. (basically toward the 0 side of the spec's tollerance)
It is a little better to be softly sprung in the rear, but 400 might be too light. you would need an aftermarket rear bar to stiffen out some roll. Im 450 and wish it was 500lbs with my fronts being 750 wishing they were 800. the rest can be tuned with shock settings and bar.
mk
125mm front 140mm rear ride hight
2 degrees neg camber in the rear
1.7 mm camber in the front
slightly neg toe front and rear(within specs)
caster, spec is fine
anything else, and you will be sorry, for a couple of reasons.
if you start lowering the car, which you will if its a race car the toe will go out.
It wont handle right, and you will chew up the outside edges of the tires.
You will end up with what is proven to work. (Ive done this on 4 race cars with over 3000 cummulative race laps ) Tire wear is good and the cars are fast and neutral. You can see how the cars work in the videos we post too.
Where you will end up is where we have found the fastest settings.
2 degree front camber
2 degree rear camber
110mm ride hight front and 135mm rear ride hight.
caster, over 4
toe 1/8th" toe in front and rear. (basically toward the 0 side of the spec's tollerance)
It is a little better to be softly sprung in the rear, but 400 might be too light. you would need an aftermarket rear bar to stiffen out some roll. Im 450 and wish it was 500lbs with my fronts being 750 wishing they were 800. the rest can be tuned with shock settings and bar.
mk
01-19-2009, 07:34 PM
#6
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
i'm learning....
... keep the posts coming ! but , remember, we must have a consensus ! 
... keep the posts coming ! but , remember, we must have a consensus !
Trending Topics
01-19-2009, 11:12 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
He did say, "track car" , plus, Ive been running my specs much more extreme than what i advised and have not seen any inside tire wear, and just have to be very careful about speed bumps and driveways. BUT, I am 109mm front and 135mm rear. Anyway, if you want carefree street driving , you are right.
However, for a track car, I think the specs I mention should work out fine.
mk
However, for a track car, I think the specs I mention should work out fine.
mk
Mark,
The specs I gave were more for a track style car that is street legal and driven on the street every now and then, I say 150mm mainly due to the fact of having to clear the odd speed bump. Lower than this and up here you will never make it, possibly not even in and out of some of the gas stations.
What you have said about spring rates at the bottom of your post is exactly what I recommended in my first post.
I do agree with you on your alignment specs, if and only if the car really is only ever use on the track. If you drive long distances with your specs the insides of the tires will be done fairly quick.
The specs I gave were more for a track style car that is street legal and driven on the street every now and then, I say 150mm mainly due to the fact of having to clear the odd speed bump. Lower than this and up here you will never make it, possibly not even in and out of some of the gas stations.
What you have said about spring rates at the bottom of your post is exactly what I recommended in my first post.
I do agree with you on your alignment specs, if and only if the car really is only ever use on the track. If you drive long distances with your specs the insides of the tires will be done fairly quick.
01-20-2009, 03:49 AM
#10
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
you're right gentleman, asphalt track car. I have a trailer to move the 928.
Later we could also opt for some road rallys ( historic rallys) as i have license plates on it and "can" drive it on the street. But therefore we should realign once we haven choosen the wheels/tires we will use for this.
Tire life must be "common" sense.. i mean we start with the optimum alignment and see what it gives... ofcourse i cannot afford wrecking a set of tires in 1 weekend....
Later we could also opt for some road rallys ( historic rallys) as i have license plates on it and "can" drive it on the street. But therefore we should realign once we haven choosen the wheels/tires we will use for this.
Tire life must be "common" sense.. i mean we start with the optimum alignment and see what it gives... ofcourse i cannot afford wrecking a set of tires in 1 weekend....
01-20-2009, 04:13 AM
#11
Nordschleife Master
150mm ride hight???? He did say track car right?
125mm front 140mm rear ride hight
2 degrees neg camber in the rear
1.7 mm camber in the front
slightly neg toe front and rear(within specs)
caster, spec is fine
anything else, and you will be sorry, for a couple of reasons.
if you start lowering the car, which you will if its a race car the toe will go out.
It wont handle right, and you will chew up the outside edges of the tires.
You will end up with what is proven to work. (Ive done this on 4 race cars with over 3000 cummulative race laps ) Tire wear is good and the cars are fast and neutral. You can see how the cars work in the videos we post too.
Where you will end up is where we have found the fastest settings.
2 degree front camber
2 degree rear camber
110mm ride hight front and 135mm rear ride hight.
caster, over 4
toe 1/8th" toe in front and rear. (basically toward the 0 side of the spec's tollerance)
It is a little better to be softly sprung in the rear, but 400 might be too light. you would need an aftermarket rear bar to stiffen out some roll. Im 450 and wish it was 500lbs with my fronts being 750 wishing they were 800. the rest can be tuned with shock settings and bar.
mk
125mm front 140mm rear ride hight
2 degrees neg camber in the rear
1.7 mm camber in the front
slightly neg toe front and rear(within specs)
caster, spec is fine
anything else, and you will be sorry, for a couple of reasons.
if you start lowering the car, which you will if its a race car the toe will go out.
It wont handle right, and you will chew up the outside edges of the tires.
You will end up with what is proven to work. (Ive done this on 4 race cars with over 3000 cummulative race laps ) Tire wear is good and the cars are fast and neutral. You can see how the cars work in the videos we post too.
Where you will end up is where we have found the fastest settings.
2 degree front camber
2 degree rear camber
110mm ride hight front and 135mm rear ride hight.
caster, over 4
toe 1/8th" toe in front and rear. (basically toward the 0 side of the spec's tollerance)
It is a little better to be softly sprung in the rear, but 400 might be too light. you would need an aftermarket rear bar to stiffen out some roll. Im 450 and wish it was 500lbs with my fronts being 750 wishing they were 800. the rest can be tuned with shock settings and bar.
mk
I would take his word, Brian in Nor Cal, and Mark Anderson, should he chime in. Those guys wont steer you wrong and probably have 10's of thousands of miles on the track.
01-20-2009, 02:58 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
I drive mine every weekend, lots of mountain runs, put 1000s of miles on it during the racing season and its still driven to most all Races! Never had a corded tire due to street driving, or any strange wear patterns. the tires are usually always tossed due to just being old, and these are Toyo Ra1s, shaved!
I wouldnt "steer" you wrong.
mk
I wouldnt "steer" you wrong.
mk
you're right gentleman, asphalt track car. I have a trailer to move the 928.
Later we could also opt for some road rallys ( historic rallys) as i have license plates on it and "can" drive it on the street. But therefore we should realign once we haven choosen the wheels/tires we will use for this.
Tire life must be "common" sense.. i mean we start with the optimum alignment and see what it gives... ofcourse i cannot afford wrecking a set of tires in 1 weekend....
Later we could also opt for some road rallys ( historic rallys) as i have license plates on it and "can" drive it on the street. But therefore we should realign once we haven choosen the wheels/tires we will use for this.
Tire life must be "common" sense.. i mean we start with the optimum alignment and see what it gives... ofcourse i cannot afford wrecking a set of tires in 1 weekend....
01-20-2009, 04:14 PM
#13
Three Wheelin'
01-20-2009, 04:53 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
thats why you start with a little more toe. 1/8" is fine. that way, it is fine under compression, and if you decide to lower the car a little, it wont change much. after 0 toe, (resting) you will notice some abnormal wear. 1/8 toed out can be pretty bad.
mk
mk
01-20-2009, 04:56 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
Yes, toe out will chew up outsides of the tires, but what i was reffering to was the camber setting recommeded would chew up OUTSIDEs of the tire, due to lack of camber, which i advised a little more of. sorry, lost in the translation.
mk
mk