Lorax

No way, a good 951 runs about 7-10k. You can easily find good ones under 10k. Try and find a well sorted s4 for under 10k...

You really mean to tell me mods cost the same?

Pistons? twice as much. Rods? twice as much. Head gaskets? Twice as much. Adding a turbo to a car that didn't come with one from the factory is always going to cost more... let alone a v8.

Not knocking on 928's... but lets just be honest about these things.

Hilton

There's multiple forced induction 928 S4's around with otherwise stock engines, more than one of which is on their original head gasket. Some with S/C, and at least one twin turbo and one rear-mount turbo.

You don't need rods, pistons, rings, etc. to get 500+ rwhp in an S4.

Sure, there are people with NA strokers who've done all the parts you list, but thats a whole other more expensive approach There are also some who are using custom everything on the 928 block as a base to do forced induction, but its an intellectual exercise for them.

As to which is better.. no idea having never driven a 944/951. Been tempted lately by an '88 Silver Rose turbo S (yes with the plaid interior).. but with one 10 week and one 2yr old daughters, garage time is on hold until later next year.

Lorax

It is more expensive to modify and maintain a 928 than a 944. That has nothing to do with my personal bias, which is towards the 951. I think it's great that people boost the stock motor, that doesn't mean that modifying it is cheaper. Personally I think there should be a few more 1000rwhp+ 928's running around and I sometimes wonder why I don't see them.

Lots of things are going to cost more to do on a 928, for example twin turbo indicates twice the number of turbos.

As for the ongoing debate, I don't care which is better. Honestly, nothing is further from my mind. I'll just keep on driving (or fixing ) what I like and enjoying it.

Although... if I had to maintain a 928, I might just hang myself with that 6ft long timing belt.

Peace

333pg333

Show me the market price for a good S4 with 5 speed?

Thom

The only feature that really lets me down on the 928 is the interior.
It has not aged well and it feels claustrophobic (I'm 6ft3), even without the sunroof. I wish Porsche had bothered redesigning the dashboard like they did in 85.5 on the 944.

To this day I have had the opportunity to drive one '89 GT, one '91 GT, one '86 S2 and one '93 GTS (all 5 speeds).
I would love a GT, but if I had to give it the care and attention I give to my two 944 if would cost me twice as much without giving even remotely half the fun behind the wheel.

Each to their own. Let's just enjoy our cars before some f-ing politicians decide to ban them and force-feed us with the modern sh*t.

cold_beer839

I guess by good you mean fairly reasonable miles (below 80k) and well sorted.

I would say that a "good" well sorted 928 S4 5-spd would price out about the same as a "good" well sorted 951.

Just go to the classified section here. There is a 27k mile '89 951 for $23.5K. Then there is an 88k mile '88 928 S4 5-spd for $19,950 (might as well say $20k). Adjust for mileage on the S4 to get it to 27k miles, and it would probably cost around $24k.

I think 944/951's are sweet cars. Came close to buying one a few times,but I bought a 928 instead. The V8 seduced me.

Lorax

looking at what someone lists their baby for on in the classifieds section of an enthusiast site is not the way to check market value. A VERY solid turbo S should sell for around 10-12k. A garage queen perfect example low mileage unmolested car between 15-20k.

Even then... if you are going to mod the car (most people here would) you can find a good non-s car... solid motor, decent mileage, good paint... for 7g.

cold_beer839

Yes, BUT, both cars I listed as examples were pulled from the same enthusiast site. Besides, most enthusiast know the market value of their cars, so there is a comparable control there.

Everyone knows that these cars can range from junk to concours champion. And the term "good" is wide open to interpretation, basically covering everything inbetween.

In general terms, a VERY solid S4 5-spd would cost around $10-12k. It's all relative to the car in question.

A friend of mine recently bought a 30k mile '87 S4 5-spd for $21k. We could give examples all day long for both cars, as long as we stay within the confines of the term "good".

Lorax

I'm sorry... I think you are wrong. I don't think you can get as nice of a 928S4 for the same money as you can get a 951. All in all, that is pretty much the way it is.

That shouldn't be insulting to you.

Olli Snellman

I suppose suspension/tire mods are also available for 951's. I can easily get same amount of power for a 951S as S4 have with few hundred $£€. Try to raise up 928 power with same money. With 300+hp and suspension mods it's totally different story to compare these cars. We can get easily (not cheap tough) 400-500 hp. i suppose it's not that easy with 928 engines. At least it's not cheap.
I like also 928, especially GTS model, would love to own one. I just don't understand certain "big brother" attitude, some 928 owners have over us poor 951's owners.

Two 951 guys testing a manual S4 (or was it a GT. Erkka can confirm that)

cold_beer839

I'm not insulted, that's simply your opinion on these cars. Like we all know, the prices for each are all over the place.

sty3x

I drove a 944 once and I felt like I was an Apollo astronaut reentering the earth

stout

James,

Believe me when I say we have tried EVERYTHING possible with USPS this side of ($$$$$$) first-class mailing.

Mailing as individual copies from the printer, shipping as pallets to bulk mail centers, delaying the newsstand release so subscribers get their copies first (great for timeliness on the newsstand, that), etc.

With Bulk Rate mailing, copies often "sit around" until the post office has less "better stuff to do." Oh, and the magazine is printed in Ohio, so you and I are about as far as it has to go, even though it is "done" here.

Best,

pete

RedRose

Well I'll take my 944 NA over my dad's '83 928S, just because it feels like I'm more a part of the car. It's slower, but I'm always feeling disconnected when driving the 928, in comparision.

BC

Weird that the 951 fanbois had to come over here to defend, yet thier thread with obvious bias on their board has not been invaded by us.