333pg333

Pete, I think the thing to realise in all this is it's just words on a forum regarding cars that only a minority even know about. This thread has taken a path off the beaten track but it can be traced back to when I suggested that the original article (while a good read and a fair description of both cars) was not quite a true contest. Out of that has come a bunch of people's thoughts and the diversions start. I guess we have to agree to disagree on the availability of a good condition 5 speed S4 being worth more (the magic $5k) than the similarly conditioned 951. Some people have made remarks out of passion, and others out of jest. No matter. I don't think that there are too many of the 951 guys that would kick a nice 928 out of the garage given the chance.
The question of enhanced performance becoming an addition to this topic is also OK in my books because many of us do drive in modified cars and take them to the track to enjoy our cars for the reason that they were built. The 928 was never designed as a track car and that's why Porsche basically never raced them. The 951, well I'm not really sure what the basis of this car's existence is? It was too close to the then flagship of the range, the 930 and if nothing else, only highlights why Porsche won't build an RS version of the Cayman. It would quite likely embarrass them again and they learned one lesson with the 951/968t. The can't afford for these smaller cars to show their true ability again.
Anyway a bit of lively debate on a Forum is what it's all about. I wish I could make it to that potential 928/951 get together. Perhaps you'd like to hold one down in Australia?

Tom. M

I'm not sure that is 100% true. The 928 was never "evolved" into a race car. The 924 was not designed to race in that sense either. It evolved into the 944...and then the 951. It is how Porsche does it and economic circumstances dictated that development of the 928 stop basically in 92 (after intro of the GTS) and it was a detuned version of what it could have been.

I was digging back in some of my way early panorama and excellence mags..and there was mention of 6.0 liters and turbos for the 928 (factory rumor of course) but none of that came to be. The 928 is a great track platform and with some few simple mods can be a reliable competitive racer. Look at Mark K and Mark A just for an intro, and there are many more club level 928 racers coming on line soon. We can easily stuff big rubber under our cars, big brakes are there, suspension takes about $300 bucks and I'm running 750/500 hypercoils, take out all the crap in there and the car drops to below 3000 very easily. Mines an 82 with a S4 engine (not dynoed yet but in all likelihood makes 300 ft-lbs and 300 hp with simple x pipe and a few LH tweaks). you'll start to see the potential of the 928 come out in a few years...the only sad part is that the evolving of the 928 into a track car came on the backs of the enthusiasts and not Porsche...

Black Sea RD

IMHO, Porsche would have developed the 928 further for racing if the world market, especially the American market, would have supported the 928 better. From what I have learned through the years many Porsche company insiders also viewed the 928 as a enigma to the 911. The 911 of course being a direct descendent from the car the Porsche company was initially founded on.

No one can argue with Porsche's racing success with the 911. However a glimpse of what could have been in store for the 928 if Porsche developed the 928 for racing was shown in the 1984 24 Hours of Daytona. A 928 was raced by Brumos in this race and was let into the race as a wild card when it failed to qualify outright to be in the race. Through the race the 928 climbed from last place, IIRC 73rd or 74th to IIRC, 14th overall and 4th in class. Mr. Snodgrass, the head of Brumos and the one who commissioned Porsche to bring him the 928 for this race, told me that after the Porsche reps saw how well the 928 was running they asked Mr. Snodgrass if he could "podium" the 928. However Mr. Snodgrass had run a conservative race with the 928 and a podium finish was just not possible.

Through the race the 928 was very reliable and reportedly only needed a quart of oil every other pit stop. It's reliability was one of the key factors for placing as high as it did.

Cheers,
Constantine

MGW-Fla

Here's a pic of the 1984 928S that was raced in the 24 Hours of Daytona, main sponsor was Style Auto. Info I have shows it finished 15th overall after starting 72nd on the grid, in the GTO class. Of course, it didn't hurt that two of the four drivers were the legendary Porsche drivers of Richard Attwood and Vic Elford.

MGW-Fla

Here's a better pic up close of the 928 at Daytona, pretty sure this is on the starting grid just prior to the race, as is common to let the fans preview the cars up close.
Kinda looks like it has the Ott rear fender flares doesn't it??

MGW-Fla

You gotta love the creative numbering of the car....
928

Black Sea RD

Nice pictures Mel!

Speaking of Vic Elford, he told me on pre-race high speed tests on the Daytona banking the 928 was a bit squirrely but the managing powers would not let them put any extra spoilers on the car. They fiddled with the suspension to make the car handle better and that's the way they ran the race.

Happy Holidays,
Constantine

928autobahndreamer

Exactly the reason for the title of my original post. With the history between the 951 and 928 guys it was only a matter of time before it turned into a pissing contest.

Although this one is much more civil than usual

ew928

I'm admiring those F-A-T front tires on the 84 928 racer.
That'll take out some understeer.

Charley B

Was it somewhere on RL that I read "Oversteer is when the passenger is scared, understeer is when the driver is scared."?

Pretty funny.

Sab

This used to be my GT a while ago and I beleive the SC went on at about 170k miles. So it should have quite some miles on it by now.
I took the car to a few track / DE days and it did very well. I remember some 911 drivers being a bit surprised to be passed by the old panzer on the track...

After a customized fuel mapping chip it never had any issues.

Dan, how is the car holding up? And how many miles are on it now?
cheers,

333pg333

Yes but the point being that the 928 was never designed with racing in mind. It was the Panamera of the day. A true GT. That some people went on to race it and that they could have been something special had the factory pursued it, is another matter. I enjoy watching whatever footage there is of the 928s on the track, just like I do of the 4 bangers. That Porsche entered 4 cylinder models at LeMans etc might say something too?

worf928

Since the 928 was originally intended as the replacement for the 911, then there are only a few logical possibilities: 1) they did design it with an eye towards future development for racing or 2) they didn't and planned to exit racing once the 911 was too-long in the tooth or 3) the 911 wasn't designed with racing in mind either.