GregBBRD

I wouldn't say it is very easy...at least it wasn't, for me. The relay board required a fair amount of rewiring and the addition of more relays to make it all work, properly. (For the '85 USA cars and Euro cars.) My head hurt, pretty good, after a couple of days of wiring comparison and changing.

You are correct, the early USA cars are a bit tougher. We use the complete front wiring loom from the later cars and "surgically" remove all the wiring that is already in the car (headlights, etc). We keep the wiring for the coils, ignition amplifier, etc. and cover this wiring, building a "new" loom. This "new" loom can be installed alongside the existing loom. The wiring for the electric fans, is also in the "donor" loom, if someone decided to use the original electric fan set-up, from the S-4 vehicle.

I'm not familiar with the "aftermarket" systems that you are talking about. I like to keep the original Porsche pieces in my cars, when possible. I actually have a several reasons for doing this. Having been in this business, for over 35 years, I've seen literally dozens of "aftermarket" companies come and go. When they go, getting replacement parts can be impossible and generally requires buying another system and starting over. If they are still in business, they usually have moved on to another product and don't support the old product, any longer. With the Porsche stuff, you can always get replacement pieces. That brings up the second reason. If a piece fails and you are on the road, you can get replacement pieces very easily for the Porsche system. This can be a problem with an "aftermarket" system. You might spend some considerable time, rounding up the "aftermarket" piece that failed.

Since all of my work leaves me and is used by someone else (I'm never the end user), who may or may not be close to me (I get cars from literally all over the world), I know that there are many people and many suppliers out there that can "support" the original pieces....both in terms of parts and knowledge. I know that if a car quits in Bulgaria, the owner can take it to almost any shop and get it repaired, with the factory pieces in place.

Lizard928

Greg,
My comment on the swap were simply with adapting the s4 engint harness to the earlier years. I wouldn't bother adding the overly complex fan system as it isn't really required.

I also fully understand why you want to stay very factory and for most people I do agree that would be best. But if someone is willing to tackle a large project like this they are abit more capable than the average owner. Now that said an aftermarket engine management system is going to limit how many people will buy the car regardless of how nice and well tuned the car is.

GregBBRD

I agree with the idea of not using the stock fan system. Hard to imagine what they were thinking when that got created....had to be some sort of "internal" bet between some engineers who could creat the most complex thing for the simplest task.

I've been though the "aftermarket" thing many, many times. Sometimes the stock stuff just will not support what people are trying to do and people have no choice but to go to other components. I understand that and agree that there has to be better stuff out there.

Leslie 928 S2

Thanks guys.

Well, today's developments revealed new needs, unfortunately.

While cleaning up the S4 engine and getting ready to do the timing belt/water pump/front seal job today, Kevin discovered that the cam pulleys are beyond their service life. At least one is, the other is eh. The rest of the pulleys look great, though. And no end play on the crank shaft, thank god; the water pump is still intact and the engine is still in time.

I don't suppose anyone a little closer to NJ than CA has a usable one or two they would sell us and ship fast? Like to ship on Monday express mail? If so, PM me with your price. Thanks!!

Leslie 928 S2

Today, the S4 carcas got towed out of here (hmmmmm, this does seem to be a recurring theme around here.... ).





Aaaah...a job well done.



Bye bye S4



It was very exciting, as the carcas was actually up on two floor jacks in the garage (and 4 jack stands), but the rear and trans were stuck on the floor under the back end of the car and with the limited space, Kevin couldn't get them out of there. So when the driver arrived, they pulled out the jack stands, and winched the car out of the garage teetering on the floor jacks, right up and over the trans, etc., until the car hit the end of the ramp of the truck. Then they let the jacks down and continued winching it right up.

Here's a shot of the trans and everything else that was left behind in the garage, just as it hit the floor during disassembly ... you can even see the broken upper arm on the passenger side from the accident that took this car out of commission.



After the driver left, we spent some time f*#/ing around with the engine on the hoist and getting it stuck in the mud a few times (damn, that thing is heavy! you can see where the hoist is sitting off to the side in one of the pics above). We finally got the thing into the garage again and Kevin spent the day cleaning it up, finishing the gasketing work, and the OPG and rear main seal, and he messed around a bit with the cheesehead socket (which he says should be called the "s&^thead socket" cuz it's the worst thing he's ever seen in his life ).

ANY-who...tomorrow, if life is good, the final bits and pieces will actually arrive from the postal service on time, and this engine reseal will be completed, and the engine ready for installation into the 85 Euro. Wednesday, he should begin the task of disassembling the Euro, and with luck will be workng on the installation of the S4 by Thursday or Friday. That's all assuming the car gods are smiling, of course, and there are no major catastrophes or limb threatening injuries requiring hospital visits.

Kevin has decided to do the trans and TT now after all, because he realized that when this is all done, he's still gotta get tires, and then he has to get an alignment, and he doesn't want to do the alignment part twice taking it apart to do the trans later on, as he was orignally planning. And so his self-imposed challenge grows....

Anybody bored yet?

Lizard928

leslie,

An alignment is not required at all for doing a tranny swap, I still say not to bother with the swap esp if the tranny that is in the car now is working ok.

Leslie 928 S2

Colin, I know, it doesn't seem like a good idea on the face of it, but the current trans is leaking at the front seal, the posi rear's clutches are no more, the tt bearings are bad, and the trans was starting to act up just a little bit between shifts of late.

And the rack is leaking and has an inch of play.

All this stuff is in fabulous shape on the S4.

Then you connsider that car has to travel 150 miles a day once it goes back on the road, and what he doesn't need is a breakdown. He has to go over the longest bridge around here, the Tappan Zee, which is like 2 miles long it seems. With our horrible luck, and you have no idea how horrible our luck is, he'll break down right smack in the middle of the bridge in the middle lane, and probably start the largest traffic jam known to mankind trying to fix it right there, too.


It's ok, Colin. Don't worry so. Kevin was a trans guy from a long time ago. He sees how this will work, and it's going to be just fine.

In fact, it's gonna kick ***.

The engine is gold inside, btw...is that normal for a newer engine? It's clean like new in there -- cams, chain, guide blocks, crank, rods, everything. Inside of the engine oil pan was spotless, and the fluid that came out of the trans was cherry red. He was actually pissed he had to drain it out, it was so nice. There's even a receipt for a replacement trans from not that long ago. Someone took very good care of this car at one point, notwithstanding the worn cam pulley.

Thanks for all your help!

Leslie 928 S2

Well, the end of the day today finds Kevin just about at the end of the clean up and reseal job on the S4 donor engine. His progress has been hampered some by the recent unwelcome arrival of sleet, freezing rain, and snow in the past couple of days, and with having to leave the garage door open half the time because of the fumes from the cleaners, it's freakin' cold out there.

Then near the end of the afternoon he discovered that we had neglected to order the little rubber rings around the manifold bolts and somehow the thermostat gasket that we did order and which arrived a week ago has mysteriously disappeared in the house somewhere, and that has stopped him in his tracks. He was hoping to begin disassembly of the Euro tomorrow, but he's about a day behind that goal now. So the additional items will be here tomorrow, and he will finish the reseal job by the end of the day tomorrow, most likely.

But, he is making some progress nonetheless.

Lizard928

while you have the manifold off you may as well paint it :P

One question for you is did you replace the oil filler neck?

Leslie 928 S2

Yeah, yeah, it's getting painted.

Black with the lettering in silver. He has learned if he heats it with a heater, then he can paint in cold weather - speedy dry!

Erm...that would be a no on the oil filler neck, but we did replace the gasket and dipstick. Does that count?

Lizard928

those necks warp on the S4 and even with the gasket it could leak, as Roger about it. and how to check

Lizard928

one word......

Oven!!!

Mrmerlin

you can check the oil fill neck by placing it on a smooth surface, of course the grill may have to be removed they usually warp in the center

Doc GTO

Looking good! Good luck with the swap.

Leslie 928 S2

Ooooooh....that's a great idea! Perfect for those small metal bits. But I'm not 100% sure the intake would have fit in there...our oven is pretty small. It's big enough for a 20 lb bird, and not much more. Still, I won't kick him out for trying to use the oven that way. Lord knows I don't use it much myself.
Colin, Stan, thanks for the word of caution on this one. He checked, and the grill is not warped, amazingly enough, and the rest of it is straight against a straight edge.

It's clean and back on now anyway.

Thanks, Stan!
Happy holidays.
Thank you! Welcome to the group!




So, today was another slow day. Kevin repaired the wire harness in a few areas, installed the knock sensors, and then removed the side covers of the intake to find flaking gold paint everywhere.

He spent the vast majority of the day cleaning it all out, and then painted the intake at the end of the day.


Colin? Whaddya think? Does this pass inspection?





G'night all!