928 Motorsports + Electromotive
#31
Sequential injection (AT IDLE, and Low RPM cruise) only fires ONE injector at the proper port at the proper time. At higher Revs, because of the timing of things, Even sequential injection is firing NOT at the specific opening of the valve. By 6500rpm, you are almost spraying all the time anyway. Unless you greatly increase the size of the injector past requirements. There is also some power increase, but only when you stick below 60% duty cycle.
Sequential allows you to run much larger injectors. And it does help with emissions and MPG.
#32
Carl - If I hadn't lost nearly 50% of my net worth in the stock market since December 07, I'd be all over this system. It looks like it would be fun to use.
Last edited by Bill Ball; 01-22-2009 at 03:14 PM.
#33
as usual, another nice upgrade that many should put on their shopping list.
I certainly will.
it will be a great addition to the new 16V intake (if) when it becomes available.
anything that brings us from the dark ages to current technology is a good thing.......
I'll be glad to part with my CIS, distributor ignition, and my near thirty year old engine wiring harness.
Nice work Carl.
--Russ
I certainly will.
it will be a great addition to the new 16V intake (if) when it becomes available.
anything that brings us from the dark ages to current technology is a good thing.......
I'll be glad to part with my CIS, distributor ignition, and my near thirty year old engine wiring harness.
Nice work Carl.
--Russ
#34
Its OK to be confused.
There is "Bank-fire", "Sequential-Fire", "Phased Sequential", "Full Sequential" and a host of other street-talk descriptions that are even more confusing like "Semi-Sequential" and more.
In general:
Bank-fire means that all the injectors on each bank are fired at once. Crankshaft position is only generally accounted for (if at all).
Batch-fire means several injectors are fired at once, and there are several iterations. This term is not very specific, and often abused and confused. "Batch Fire" has too many meanings to be of any use as a term.
Phased-sequential means only 2 injectors are fired at a time, only 2 injector events per 720 degrees of rotation. The cylinder at TDC and its companion are fired simultaniously. Crankshaft location is more accurately timed in this style of injection than in bank-fire, so the resolution (timed degrees of rotation) in the fuel injector control and ignition control is much higher.
Full sequential means the engine is equipped with camshaft timing sensors because the engine must be able to separate the 2 TDC events and know which one is on the Intake stroke. In Full sequential, only 1 injector event occurs each 720 degrees fo crank rotation.
For all the added complexity that full-sequential requires, both automobile manufacturers and after-market tuners have discovered that while emissions and mpg can be increased using a full sequential injection configuration, HP is typically not effected as the benefits to sequential injection are typically limited to idle and low load conditions.
There is "Bank-fire", "Sequential-Fire", "Phased Sequential", "Full Sequential" and a host of other street-talk descriptions that are even more confusing like "Semi-Sequential" and more.
In general:
Bank-fire means that all the injectors on each bank are fired at once. Crankshaft position is only generally accounted for (if at all).
Batch-fire means several injectors are fired at once, and there are several iterations. This term is not very specific, and often abused and confused. "Batch Fire" has too many meanings to be of any use as a term.
Phased-sequential means only 2 injectors are fired at a time, only 2 injector events per 720 degrees of rotation. The cylinder at TDC and its companion are fired simultaniously. Crankshaft location is more accurately timed in this style of injection than in bank-fire, so the resolution (timed degrees of rotation) in the fuel injector control and ignition control is much higher.
Full sequential means the engine is equipped with camshaft timing sensors because the engine must be able to separate the 2 TDC events and know which one is on the Intake stroke. In Full sequential, only 1 injector event occurs each 720 degrees fo crank rotation.
For all the added complexity that full-sequential requires, both automobile manufacturers and after-market tuners have discovered that while emissions and mpg can be increased using a full sequential injection configuration, HP is typically not effected as the benefits to sequential injection are typically limited to idle and low load conditions.
Last edited by Carl Fausett; 01-22-2009 at 03:48 PM.
#35
The 928 Motorsports TEC GT Engine Management System (EMS) kit is a complete replacement for all of these items on your 928:
The entire stock ignition system
The entire stock fuel injector system
The entire fuel injector wiring harness
The distributor caps, ignition coils, and spark plug wires
The stock LMB (injection) computer
The stock EZK (ignition) computer.
The stock MAF (Mass Air Flow) Sensor
The entire stock ignition system
The entire stock fuel injector system
The entire fuel injector wiring harness
The distributor caps, ignition coils, and spark plug wires
The stock LMB (injection) computer
The stock EZK (ignition) computer.
The stock MAF (Mass Air Flow) Sensor
I don't see what looks like a complete injector harness. Where are the injector plugs? Also, you mention it will use most of the stock sensors. Will it include plugs for them or is this something the end user will have to acquire and splice onto the new harmess leads?
Where would you mount the MAP and MAT in an otherwise stock system?
Oh, and just curious, where does the "LMB" nomenclature come from when referring to the LH ECU? I'm not familiar with that and The Google failed me.
#36
Map is usually just a vac/boost line off of the post TB manifold. MAT (IAT) is also usually put as a probe into the intake tract. Its important to place it so it does not get the heatsoak from the actual intake material.
#38
The injector connectors are provided by us, although you are right, they are not in the photograph. My bad. Photo below. I use the newer type with the bail that does not require any tools to remove on and off.
The 3-wire connectors are also provided, and have the same push-to-release bail.
We are designing it to use the stock knock snsor and crank timing sensor.
The MAP sensor can be mounted to the firewall with 2 screws. The hot-wire sensor (MAF) is no longer needed, and on boosted cars, they usually maxed-out anyway unless you sent them in to be re-calibrated and modified. Just replace it with a section of tube.
The 3-wire connectors are also provided, and have the same push-to-release bail.
We are designing it to use the stock knock snsor and crank timing sensor.
The MAP sensor can be mounted to the firewall with 2 screws. The hot-wire sensor (MAF) is no longer needed, and on boosted cars, they usually maxed-out anyway unless you sent them in to be re-calibrated and modified. Just replace it with a section of tube.
#41
Is this harness going to be plug and play? Specific for the 928,
Or do they get the base harness and they still have to cut splice, add connectors etc.?
Or do they get the base harness and they still have to cut splice, add connectors etc.?
UNIVERSAL V8 KIT:
TEC GT Electronic Control Unit
TEC GT 6' Main Wiring Harness
Two Direct Fire Ignition Units
Pre-wired TEC Power/Fuse/Relay Wiring Harness
MAP (Mass Air Pressure)
Sensor MAT (Mass Air Temp)
Sensor Bosch D-type TPS (Throttle Position Sensor)
PC Serial Communications Cable
TEC GT Software for Windows PC
Complete Electromotive Installation Instructions
Porsche® 928 1987-95 kit includes everything in the kit above plus:
Adapter bracket to mount TPS to Porsche® Throttle Body
Two Distributor Cap Hole Plugs
Porsche® 928 1985-86 32v kit includes everything in the 2 kits above plus:
Adapter mount for knock Sensor
Porsche® 928 Knock Sensor
Porsche® 928 1978-1985 16v kit includes everything in the 3 kits above plus:
Crankshaft Reference Mark Sensor
Crankshaft Sensor Mount
Distributor Hole Plug Other
TEC GT Electronic Control Unit
TEC GT 6' Main Wiring Harness
Two Direct Fire Ignition Units
Pre-wired TEC Power/Fuse/Relay Wiring Harness
MAP (Mass Air Pressure)
Sensor MAT (Mass Air Temp)
Sensor Bosch D-type TPS (Throttle Position Sensor)
PC Serial Communications Cable
TEC GT Software for Windows PC
Complete Electromotive Installation Instructions
Porsche® 928 1987-95 kit includes everything in the kit above plus:
Adapter bracket to mount TPS to Porsche® Throttle Body
Two Distributor Cap Hole Plugs
Porsche® 928 1985-86 32v kit includes everything in the 2 kits above plus:
Adapter mount for knock Sensor
Porsche® 928 Knock Sensor
Porsche® 928 1978-1985 16v kit includes everything in the 3 kits above plus:
Crankshaft Reference Mark Sensor
Crankshaft Sensor Mount
Distributor Hole Plug Other
For example, the 1985/86 928 has the Hall sensor, but no knock sensor nor the provision for one. We provide ythe knock sensor and the adapter to fit it into the 928 block.
The 16v motors do not have the hall sensor nor the knock sensors, and our kit provides all of that too.
Yes - the wiriing harness is complete and plugs are provided for each sensor and injector. The plugs are not attached... so you can pull the wiring through the firewall, then you add the connectors to the wires once they are on the other side.
WHAT IS NOT INCLUDED: is whatever sort of tube or throttle body you would like to use to replace your L-Jet barn door, or LH-Jet MAF sensor. I leave that to you.
Incidently - you do not have to replace the MAF sensor if you do not want to. The TEC GT kit can use it instead of the MAP sensor. However, they are getting old and frail, and they cannot measure high CFM/boost applications, so you may want to switch to MAP instead anyway.
The system can use both MAP or MAF or a blended tune, using both MAP and TPS.
Last edited by Carl Fausett; 01-25-2009 at 11:50 PM.
#42
What are the aids in software to help you tune ? Autotune ?
I remember reading about some other tuning assists in the manual - I'll go check it for more.
#43
It has such a large list of aids to tuning that its really hard to list them here.
With a few answers, it will lay in a fuel and ignition map for you that allows you to start up a new engine or application safely literally within minutes.
Of course, it can auto-tune in real-time on the highway so repeated trips to the dyno can be avoided. That is not only convenient but saves money.
It can also Tune thru the MAF sensor, or the MAP sensor, and if the engine has high boost and lumpy cams (and trouble idling as a result), it has a blended-tune feature that will use both MAP and TPS inputs to run the engine.
Keep in mind that the increase in resolution alone is something on the order of 25x higher than stock. The 60-minus-2 toothed timing wheel is used even today on the 2008 and 2009 Porsche/Bosch systems.
But, from that timing wheel, the old Bosch system indicated 120 points each revolution. In comparison, the Electromotive system calculates 3,060 angular points per revolution (1).
Additionally, the loss of mechanical distributers alone greatly enhances the accuracy of each timing event. On the 32v 928, our distributor is first belt driven (by a 6-foot long belt) and driven off a camshaft the also drives the exhaust via chain. Chain lash, belt lash, and arcing in the cap all contribute to the randomness of the ignition events. (2)
Because of (1) and (2) above, we can not only garner more HP thru extremely accurate ignition timing events, but add tremendous safety to the engine by eliminating unwanted detonations.
With a few answers, it will lay in a fuel and ignition map for you that allows you to start up a new engine or application safely literally within minutes.
Of course, it can auto-tune in real-time on the highway so repeated trips to the dyno can be avoided. That is not only convenient but saves money.
It can also Tune thru the MAF sensor, or the MAP sensor, and if the engine has high boost and lumpy cams (and trouble idling as a result), it has a blended-tune feature that will use both MAP and TPS inputs to run the engine.
Keep in mind that the increase in resolution alone is something on the order of 25x higher than stock. The 60-minus-2 toothed timing wheel is used even today on the 2008 and 2009 Porsche/Bosch systems.
But, from that timing wheel, the old Bosch system indicated 120 points each revolution. In comparison, the Electromotive system calculates 3,060 angular points per revolution (1).
Additionally, the loss of mechanical distributers alone greatly enhances the accuracy of each timing event. On the 32v 928, our distributor is first belt driven (by a 6-foot long belt) and driven off a camshaft the also drives the exhaust via chain. Chain lash, belt lash, and arcing in the cap all contribute to the randomness of the ignition events. (2)
Because of (1) and (2) above, we can not only garner more HP thru extremely accurate ignition timing events, but add tremendous safety to the engine by eliminating unwanted detonations.
#44
Just out of curiousity, has anyone added this EMS setup yet to a California car? I'm falling in love with a kit that can hopefully be undetectable to the smog ***** out here...
Specifically a 32-valve S4/GT/GTS?
I also see no mention about the flappy induction system and the TEC-3's compatibility to it. Would the intake runner tuning flap still function when going to Electromotive?
Specifically a 32-valve S4/GT/GTS?
I also see no mention about the flappy induction system and the TEC-3's compatibility to it. Would the intake runner tuning flap still function when going to Electromotive?
#45
Just out of curiousity, has anyone added this EMS setup yet to a California car? I'm falling in love with a kit that can hopefully be undetectable to the smog ***** out here...
Specifically a 32-valve S4/GT/GTS?
I also see no mention about the flappy induction system and the TEC-3's compatibility to it. Would the intake runner tuning flap still function when going to Electromotive?
Specifically a 32-valve S4/GT/GTS?
I also see no mention about the flappy induction system and the TEC-3's compatibility to it. Would the intake runner tuning flap still function when going to Electromotive?
Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft