GTS brakes on an S4? How about just the rotors?
11-07-2008 | 01:06 PM
#31
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For all of you doubters - I put the 993 TT disk with my custom aluminium hat on the scales last night and it came at 9.1kg, which is 20.1lbs The 928 GTS rotor came in 9.6kg, which is 21.2lbs The weight reduction is hardly worth the effort. I made the hats because it was a useful exercise to find out whether I can use 355mm Brembo disks and also because I have a supply of geniune Porsche 993 TTS disks at $379 for the pair against $474 for the pair of 965 3.6 discs...
11-07-2008 | 02:45 PM
#32
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Bigger Brakes
Mark,
This idea of yours intrests me. I upgraded the brakes on my 1980 Euro S to the S4 4 pistion calipers. I went with the 304 mm rotor at the time due to the fact I had 16" wheels on the car and the 322 mm rotor would not fit under them. The conversion utilizes the early spindle and an aluminum adaptor and it requires the 993 rotors. Now that I have upgraded my wheels to 17" up sizing the rotors makes sense, if it can be done with only spacers and new bolts to mount the caliper farther out it would be a relatively cheap upgrade since the calipers would remain the as is. the rotors for the 993 TT are easily available and cost is not to bad on a pair of them. Since I need to replace my rotors in the spring when the car comes out of storage the cost of the upgrade would be minimal. The photos of the pads shown in this thread look very similiar, except for the extention at the bottom of the GTS pad, which should be a non issue with the caliper mounted over 9+mm outboard of the stock location due to the larger rotor.
Since I run a 17*9.5"rim on the front with a 255/40 tire is should not only fill the wheel but give better braking. Anybody ever try sometning like this using the 993 322mm rotors
Paul Mammorella
1980 Euro S, red/Blk Lea
This idea of yours intrests me. I upgraded the brakes on my 1980 Euro S to the S4 4 pistion calipers. I went with the 304 mm rotor at the time due to the fact I had 16" wheels on the car and the 322 mm rotor would not fit under them. The conversion utilizes the early spindle and an aluminum adaptor and it requires the 993 rotors. Now that I have upgraded my wheels to 17" up sizing the rotors makes sense, if it can be done with only spacers and new bolts to mount the caliper farther out it would be a relatively cheap upgrade since the calipers would remain the as is. the rotors for the 993 TT are easily available and cost is not to bad on a pair of them. Since I need to replace my rotors in the spring when the car comes out of storage the cost of the upgrade would be minimal. The photos of the pads shown in this thread look very similiar, except for the extention at the bottom of the GTS pad, which should be a non issue with the caliper mounted over 9+mm outboard of the stock location due to the larger rotor.
Since I run a 17*9.5"rim on the front with a 255/40 tire is should not only fill the wheel but give better braking. Anybody ever try sometning like this using the 993 322mm rotors
Paul Mammorella
1980 Euro S, red/Blk Lea
11-07-2008 | 03:13 PM
#33
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are the diameters of the 993TT discs the same as the GTS, about 12.5"? sounds like it really wouldnt be worth the effort for only .5" of diameter change. However, a full inch, to 330mm would be worth it.
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The Brake Pad on the Big Red/Big Black is the same length as the S4, but an extra 1/4" taller. So you not only gain the mechanical advantage of the larger rotors (although not a huge size difference), but an additional, maybe 10-15%?? more pad surface.
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The Brake Pad on the Big Red/Big Black is the same length as the S4, but an extra 1/4" taller. So you not only gain the mechanical advantage of the larger rotors (although not a huge size difference), but an additional, maybe 10-15%?? more pad surface.
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Mike or Dave Lindsey
www.lindseyracing.com
U.S. 1-877-943-3565
Other 1-405-947-0137
Mike or Dave Lindsey
www.lindseyracing.com
U.S. 1-877-943-3565
Other 1-405-947-0137
11-07-2008 | 05:37 PM
#35
Nordschleife Master
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From: Beverly Hills, CA
yes the pads are larger.
The GTS Calipers aren't terribly expensive guys.
I would love to find a way to get Big Black's along with a larger then stock 320mm rotor. A 350MM rotor with aluminum hat with the GTS caliper would be very nice. Could that not be done by a small spacer?
ACTUALLY, CRAP, i have a complete of like new 996 TT calipers and rotors. Last i heard the late monoblock calipers cannot be used on 928's due to differences in the mounting holes and their spacing. But that difference could alloy you to make a billet adapter that bolts onto the hub, but that is also drilled so that you could then bolt the 996 TT calipers onto the car and they would come out further so that you could then fit a larger rotor. The 996 TT rotor is about 13" and is not a compound design, but the GT3 maybe.
Where have i read about all this stuff before?
The GTS Calipers aren't terribly expensive guys.
I would love to find a way to get Big Black's along with a larger then stock 320mm rotor. A 350MM rotor with aluminum hat with the GTS caliper would be very nice. Could that not be done by a small spacer?
ACTUALLY, CRAP, i have a complete of like new 996 TT calipers and rotors. Last i heard the late monoblock calipers cannot be used on 928's due to differences in the mounting holes and their spacing. But that difference could alloy you to make a billet adapter that bolts onto the hub, but that is also drilled so that you could then bolt the 996 TT calipers onto the car and they would come out further so that you could then fit a larger rotor. The 996 TT rotor is about 13" and is not a compound design, but the GT3 maybe.
Where have i read about all this stuff before?
11-07-2008 | 06:13 PM
#36
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yes the pads are larger.
The GTS Calipers aren't terribly expensive guys.
I would love to find a way to get Big Black's along with a larger then stock 320mm rotor. A 350MM rotor with aluminum hat with the GTS caliper would be very nice. Could that not be done by a small spacer?
ACTUALLY, CRAP, i have a complete of like new 996 TT calipers and rotors. Last i heard the late monoblock calipers cannot be used on 928's due to differences in the mounting holes and their spacing. But that difference could alloy you to make a billet adapter that bolts onto the hub, but that is also drilled so that you could then bolt the 996 TT calipers onto the car and they would come out further so that you could then fit a larger rotor. The 996 TT rotor is about 13" and is not a compound design, but the GT3 maybe.
Where have i read about all this stuff before?
The GTS Calipers aren't terribly expensive guys.
I would love to find a way to get Big Black's along with a larger then stock 320mm rotor. A 350MM rotor with aluminum hat with the GTS caliper would be very nice. Could that not be done by a small spacer?
ACTUALLY, CRAP, i have a complete of like new 996 TT calipers and rotors. Last i heard the late monoblock calipers cannot be used on 928's due to differences in the mounting holes and their spacing. But that difference could alloy you to make a billet adapter that bolts onto the hub, but that is also drilled so that you could then bolt the 996 TT calipers onto the car and they would come out further so that you could then fit a larger rotor. The 996 TT rotor is about 13" and is not a compound design, but the GT3 maybe.
Where have i read about all this stuff before?
But they are lighter.
11-07-2008 | 06:18 PM
#37
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From: Beverly Hills, CA
yeah they need to be wider by at least double the size of the bolts i suppose, but preferably larger then that
I have only measuring tape to do this with currently, no dial calipers but i will let you know......
EDIT:
Ok so from the farthest point of one hole to the furthest point of the other (NOT from hole center line to centerline) I get 6 1/16 or 6 1/8" inch.
Do you understand my measurement or should i take a pic of it?
I have only measuring tape to do this with currently, no dial calipers but i will let you know......
EDIT:
Ok so from the farthest point of one hole to the furthest point of the other (NOT from hole center line to centerline) I get 6 1/16 or 6 1/8" inch.
Do you understand my measurement or should i take a pic of it?
11-07-2008 | 06:45 PM
#38
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From: saratoga, ca
So to summarize, and someone chime in if im getting it wrong.....
to go larger diameter we get a better leverage point. the surface area of the pad is not nearly important, especially, if the larger part of the surface area is only toward the axis as is the difference of the GTS vs S4 pad. after all, there are some monster brake systems that use calipers very close to our S4 calipers. (ie the StopTech setup uses our pads on many of their applications).
So, a surface area of the pads is not really a fair comparison, though rotor diameter comparisons are. As Anderson has said, the S4 calipers are very close to the F50 ferarri set up
If we are at 12" for the S4 rotors, the 993TT two piece rotors and hats gets us out to near 12.7" at 322mm. pretty substantial. are the GTS diameters the same as the 993TT? the main problem is that you have to push out the caliper, which is not that complicated and can be fixed by using a spacer and longer caliper attachment bolts. the alignemet of the rotor in the caliper based on attachment is the critical dimension. If the Hats that Lindsey has for the 951 are actuall the same as the S4 , then we can use the hats and the 993TT rotors on our 928s???? thats the Main question. the other issue is the cost of the 993tt rotors are pretty pricey. $180 to 250 each is what im hearing.
The other alternative is the GTS rotors as they bolt right on, but they are not cross drilled or slotted and are equally expensive as the 993TT two piece rotors.
The other option that is very costly , would be custom hats to use the cheaper Coleman rotors (13"), but, sounds like that solution might be well over $1000 to have made.
Im torn between using a pagid black, or Hawk HT10 next season, and the 993TT rotor and linsey custom hat solution.
thoughts?
mk
to go larger diameter we get a better leverage point. the surface area of the pad is not nearly important, especially, if the larger part of the surface area is only toward the axis as is the difference of the GTS vs S4 pad. after all, there are some monster brake systems that use calipers very close to our S4 calipers. (ie the StopTech setup uses our pads on many of their applications).
So, a surface area of the pads is not really a fair comparison, though rotor diameter comparisons are. As Anderson has said, the S4 calipers are very close to the F50 ferarri set up
If we are at 12" for the S4 rotors, the 993TT two piece rotors and hats gets us out to near 12.7" at 322mm. pretty substantial. are the GTS diameters the same as the 993TT? the main problem is that you have to push out the caliper, which is not that complicated and can be fixed by using a spacer and longer caliper attachment bolts. the alignemet of the rotor in the caliper based on attachment is the critical dimension. If the Hats that Lindsey has for the 951 are actuall the same as the S4 , then we can use the hats and the 993TT rotors on our 928s???? thats the Main question. the other issue is the cost of the 993tt rotors are pretty pricey. $180 to 250 each is what im hearing.
The other alternative is the GTS rotors as they bolt right on, but they are not cross drilled or slotted and are equally expensive as the 993TT two piece rotors.
The other option that is very costly , would be custom hats to use the cheaper Coleman rotors (13"), but, sounds like that solution might be well over $1000 to have made.
Im torn between using a pagid black, or Hawk HT10 next season, and the 993TT rotor and linsey custom hat solution.
thoughts?
mk
11-07-2008 | 06:58 PM
#39
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So to summarize, and someone chime in if im getting it wrong.....
to go larger diameter we get a better leverage point. the surface area of the pad is not nearly important, especially, if the larger part of the surface area is only toward the axis as is the difference of the GTS vs S4 pad. after all, there are some monster brake systems that use calipers very close to our S4 calipers. (ie the StopTech setup uses our pads on many of their applications).
So, a surface area of the pads is not really a fair comparison, though rotor diameter comparisons are. As Anderson has said, the S4 calipers are very close to the F50 ferarri set up
If we are at 12" for the S4 rotors, the 993TT two piece rotors and hats gets us out to near 12.7" at 322mm. pretty substantial. are the GTS diameters the same as the 993TT? the main problem is that you have to push out the caliper, which is not that complicated and can be fixed by using a spacer and longer caliper attachment bolts. the alignemet of the rotor in the caliper based on attachment is the critical dimension. If the Hats that Lindsey has for the 951 are actuall the same as the S4 , then we can use the hats and the 993TT rotors on our 928s???? thats the Main question. the other issue is the cost of the 993tt rotors are pretty pricey. $180 to 250 each is what im hearing.
The other alternative is the GTS rotors as they bolt right on, but they are not cross drilled or slotted and are equally expensive as the 993TT two piece rotors.
The other option that is very costly , would be custom hats to use the cheaper Coleman rotors (13"), but, sounds like that solution might be well over $1000 to have made.
Im torn between using a pagid black, or Hawk HT10 next season, and the 993TT rotor and linsey custom hat solution.
thoughts?
mk
to go larger diameter we get a better leverage point. the surface area of the pad is not nearly important, especially, if the larger part of the surface area is only toward the axis as is the difference of the GTS vs S4 pad. after all, there are some monster brake systems that use calipers very close to our S4 calipers. (ie the StopTech setup uses our pads on many of their applications).
So, a surface area of the pads is not really a fair comparison, though rotor diameter comparisons are. As Anderson has said, the S4 calipers are very close to the F50 ferarri set up
If we are at 12" for the S4 rotors, the 993TT two piece rotors and hats gets us out to near 12.7" at 322mm. pretty substantial. are the GTS diameters the same as the 993TT? the main problem is that you have to push out the caliper, which is not that complicated and can be fixed by using a spacer and longer caliper attachment bolts. the alignemet of the rotor in the caliper based on attachment is the critical dimension. If the Hats that Lindsey has for the 951 are actuall the same as the S4 , then we can use the hats and the 993TT rotors on our 928s???? thats the Main question. the other issue is the cost of the 993tt rotors are pretty pricey. $180 to 250 each is what im hearing.
The other alternative is the GTS rotors as they bolt right on, but they are not cross drilled or slotted and are equally expensive as the 993TT two piece rotors.
The other option that is very costly , would be custom hats to use the cheaper Coleman rotors (13"), but, sounds like that solution might be well over $1000 to have made.
Im torn between using a pagid black, or Hawk HT10 next season, and the 993TT rotor and linsey custom hat solution.
thoughts?
mk
YES the Lindsey hats with 993 TT rotors are a direct bolt on to GTS calipers. Very simple. Last i checked the 993TT rotors are less than $200 each.
The alternative to GTS rotors are 965 Twin turbo 3.6L rotors. They are same dimensions as the GTS but have the holes in them. But there was also a 3.3L single turbo 965 too which has a slightly different front brake setup. The 965 TT rotors are $150 ish each and if they are only 1 lb more then the compound 993TT rotors with aluminum hats i would just buy these and save the $300 on the hats and the $50 per rotor on something else to upgrade instead.
11-07-2008 | 07:04 PM
#41
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yeah they need to be wider by at least double the size of the bolts i suppose, but preferably larger then that
I have only measuring tape to do this with currently, no dial calipers but i will let you know......
EDIT:
Ok so from the farthest point of one hole to the furthest point of the other (NOT from hole center line to centerline) I get 6 1/16 or 6 1/8" inch.
Do you understand my measurement or should i take a pic of it?
I have only measuring tape to do this with currently, no dial calipers but i will let you know......
EDIT:
Ok so from the farthest point of one hole to the furthest point of the other (NOT from hole center line to centerline) I get 6 1/16 or 6 1/8" inch.
Do you understand my measurement or should i take a pic of it?
11-07-2008 | 07:16 PM
#42
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From: Beverly Hills, CA
11-07-2008 | 07:17 PM
#43
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Where can you get 965T rotors for $150ish? That's what I'm running. As I get back to tracking I'll be needing a few sets.
11-07-2008 | 07:19 PM
#44
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11-07-2008 | 07:21 PM
#45
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The price i got was $151 and change from a place in Oregon