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take your bets, front rattle
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Drifting
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Atlanta
take your bets, front rattle
So if you're a betting man which would you go for? Rattle front right, coming from below the water bridge. Tensioner or water pump? It's gotten worse over the last week and the car won't move until I get it fixed. Tomorrow the front is coming apart and I'll see what's what. Using the big screwdriver trick just below the water bridge and I hear a reciprocating rattle at idle very clearly, definitely coming from the vicinity of the tensioner/water pump. The water pump is definitely working since I'm getting circulation through the radiator and the heater works well, but wow this rattle isn't good.
If I get everything apart should I just go ahead and install Ken's updated tensioner too?
If I get everything apart should I just go ahead and install Ken's updated tensioner too?
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From: On my blackberry
Heard that noise before.
A couple of times we have had rebuilt water pumps that didn't last as long as they should have, and they started hitting the water pump cavity. Afterwards, a sediment in the bottom of the overflow reservoir and sparklies in the antifreeze could be seen with a flash light.
Scary!
New (non-rebuilt) water pumps stopped the problem permanently.
A couple of times we have had rebuilt water pumps that didn't last as long as they should have, and they started hitting the water pump cavity. Afterwards, a sediment in the bottom of the overflow reservoir and sparklies in the antifreeze could be seen with a flash light.
Scary!
New (non-rebuilt) water pumps stopped the problem permanently.
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Three Wheelin'
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From: In the boatyard installing the mast and engine, we don't need a crane, we harness the mesquito's! Yeah!
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Atlanta
It took a lot longer to get that center timing cover off than I thought it would. I ended up putting a jackstand under the alternator and then completely unbolting it and the power steering pump and moving the whole thing forward to get enough clearance. Then relatives came over and I had to clean up and be social. So the front of my engine is naked, ready to pull the pump and tensioner. Hopefully I'll have that done tonight.
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Team Owner
Joined: May 2004
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From: Philly PA
so is the WP shaft loose?? does the tensioner pivot look like its loose on its shaft?, did the roller bearings have any play was the tensioner roller bent forward so the front edge of the belt was running into the rear side of the crank damper?
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Joined: Feb 2003
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From: saratoga, ca
Ive had the rattling around on the pump once. generally, the pump makes an intermediate "squeaking" noise. kind of like the sound that pumps make in a factory. anyway, sounds like you will find out soon. Are you sure its coming from the water pump area and not resonating from the timing chain area ? thats where the rattleling sound came from on another 32 valver. generally, you wont get a rattling noise from the water pump as it is under such great tension from the timing belt. if its wearing the block, generally thats not heard eiher. most of the wear there , is when the pump is working hardest under high rpm. (the force on the water pulls the pump toward the block). scots was wearing the block out and we didnt hear a thing. It did start leaking, and thats how we found the problem.
mk
mk
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,235
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From: Atlanta
Sorry it took me so long to get back to this, but family stuff + work makes it almost impossible to work on the car during the week. Then today I had a lot of fun getting the crank bolt off (see other thread) but it's done now and I have three possible sources for the rattle. Water pump, but I think there are two other better culprits.
First, I took off the "slide" underneath the crank gear. This is supposed to be held on the two pins with two snap rings. Well mine only had ONE snap ring (running theme with my car) and the slide itself was completely loose, easily to rattle it around by hand. But even with two snap rings it would still be loose. Is there a spacer or something I'm missing, or is it supposed to be that loose? I don't see anything in the WSM about it.
Then I noticed if I push on the tensioner pulley towards the rear of the car, it's easy to get some fore/aft movement. In fact, it's the arm holding the idler pulley just above the tensioner that has a small amount of free play. The idler pulley itself turns easily and smoothly without any play. I checked the bolt holding the pulley and it's tight, and still the arm has some play. Does that sound right?
First, I took off the "slide" underneath the crank gear. This is supposed to be held on the two pins with two snap rings. Well mine only had ONE snap ring (running theme with my car) and the slide itself was completely loose, easily to rattle it around by hand. But even with two snap rings it would still be loose. Is there a spacer or something I'm missing, or is it supposed to be that loose? I don't see anything in the WSM about it.
Then I noticed if I push on the tensioner pulley towards the rear of the car, it's easy to get some fore/aft movement. In fact, it's the arm holding the idler pulley just above the tensioner that has a small amount of free play. The idler pulley itself turns easily and smoothly without any play. I checked the bolt holding the pulley and it's tight, and still the arm has some play. Does that sound right?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Atlanta
I'm leaning towards rebuilding the tensioner, just less money. The timing belt has right at 5k miles on it and is perfect, and the tension is good, so I had not planned on replacing it. But rebuilding the tensioner and replacing whatever else is necessary while I'm in here is a good idea.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2004
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From: Philly PA
that sure is a drty belt run for 5K miles.
At the very least you should replace the pivot bolt and the 2 plastic bushes that the tensioner arm pivots on.
Also inspect the main tensioner roller for side to side play and smoothness if there a bit of play OK but more than a bit replace it , also if its not smooth then replace it. also make sure to transfer the snapring of the new roller if you get one, and pay attention to the spacer washer thats just under the pivot arm to hold it off of the idler roller.
The belt gulde thats under the crank should have 2 thin washers and then 2 snap rings, it shouldnt be rattling but it should be loose on the shafts, its unlikly that this part was the cause of the noise unless the belt was very loose as there is nothing that will contact it
At the very least you should replace the pivot bolt and the 2 plastic bushes that the tensioner arm pivots on.
Also inspect the main tensioner roller for side to side play and smoothness if there a bit of play OK but more than a bit replace it , also if its not smooth then replace it. also make sure to transfer the snapring of the new roller if you get one, and pay attention to the spacer washer thats just under the pivot arm to hold it off of the idler roller.
The belt gulde thats under the crank should have 2 thin washers and then 2 snap rings, it shouldnt be rattling but it should be loose on the shafts, its unlikly that this part was the cause of the noise unless the belt was very loose as there is nothing that will contact it
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,235
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From: Atlanta
Yeah when the belt was done last (PO's mechanic) it's pretty clear nothing was cleaned and everything is original, except the belt. I've got to go check the records but I'm sure the water pump was replaced too, but it's at best a rebuilt unit since it's not very clean either. The oil on top of the pan is my own fault when I removed the breather pipe, but you're right. Dirt and crap everywhere, but then the car has 113k miles on it and while the car itself is very clean and extremely nice, it wasn't kept clean here.
I've got a slight amount of side to side play in the tensioner roller, but it looks like the source of that play is at the idler bolt. Bushings to replace there (what you want to bet there's only ONE in there). The spacer washer you mention is under the arm inside the idler roller? Might not be in there either, given the way the arm moves in and out.
I've got a slight amount of side to side play in the tensioner roller, but it looks like the source of that play is at the idler bolt. Bushings to replace there (what you want to bet there's only ONE in there). The spacer washer you mention is under the arm inside the idler roller? Might not be in there either, given the way the arm moves in and out.