PorKen

With the 32V'r cam bolt spacer installed, you can advance by loosening the rotor bolts, and rotating the cam CW with a wrench.

If you have to retard, the valve spring pressure is greater than the 47ft/lb holding the bolt, so the bolt usually ends up loosening. That's why you have to rotate the crank to turn the gear instead. (On the 1-4 side, if you are careful, you can let the spring pressure retard the cam in the slots, and then advance to your desired setting.)

For repeatable results, when changing the timing (32V'r or WSM), you should spin the engine with the starter to equalize the belt tension. The belt is holding the cam gear in place, but while adjusting, friction pulls it, so even though it may appear unchanged, the belt tension can change the timing by 2°. (On the 1-4 side I usually have to add 2° of advance to get to the actual setting I want after spinning.)

mark kibort

Got it read your manual and it was obvious then. just rotate that bolt, as the cams are not tied to the pulley and they can rotate advance with the wrench on the bolt.

I deleted my post because it was answered in the manual.

what about my other question?

thanks

Mk

PorKen

I didn't answer because the question doesn't make sense. Variances?

Yes. (Obviously?)

V2
1/4: -2
5/8: 0



Do you have a V1? If you don't, it just confuses the conversation.

V1
1/4: 0
5/8: +2

mark kibort

The engine runs a little different on start up. It could have been due to a lifter needing to pump up as it was REALLY noisy. maybe after rotating the engine so many times a lifter went flat. After it was warm and quiet, the power was near the same based on my 60-100mph times. I was suspecting the 60-80mph segment to be slower (loss of torque) and 80-100mph to be faster. In the end , it was tough to determine. Base on times, they both are slightly faster. (ie 60-80 was near 2.1-2.2, now its 2.0 to 2.1. 80 to 100mph was 2.6 now near 2.5sec) Of course, the shift point is beyond 100mph in 3rd gear , so if there are gains above 5800rpm, im not testing for that.

as far as a banner for Ken, there wasnt a tool donated! However, the list and Ken figured out where I had an error in my WSM technique AFTER 30 pages of discussion. In my mind, knowing what i know now, i would say the mistake i did could be very easily made if it wasnt made clear that the TDC point of measurement is meaningless for lifter depression. (unless you rotate the engine a full 360 degrees , plus the 20 to get the lifter depression. OR, what ended up doing is just start the measurement at 45 degrees to get all the movement of the lifter to 20 degrees. when adjusted properly, at TDC, the lifter drops about .005". about .037" at 10 degrees ATDC which i near the factory cam spec of 1mm lift at 11 degrees ATDC.

Instead of using the tool, i had to spend 2 nights and 1 morning pulling the cam covers and adjusting the cams. NOT FUN!!

I think it took longer to build the stroker engine than doing this job and the engine was a heck of a lot more fun and less painful!

mk

mark kibort

BUMP.

So my real question regarding "variances" was:

How does the WSM set the all the 32valve cams to 2 degrees advanced of the cam key centers? or are you only talking about the WSM setting for the passenger cam only?

I thought the WSM would set the cam timing to be 0, or right on the cam key center, unless its the passenger cam that you state should be 1-2 degrees retarded.

ALSO, a question ive never had answered to ths point, is why the WSM has the different cams with a different spread between the cams as far as degree offset. 1.6 or 1.8 to 2mm intake lifter depression (ie S4 vs 85 cams)

mk


Quote:
Originally Posted by PorKen
The 32V'r is indexed of the center of the cam key. (This is the zero on the V1.) The WSM method sets the cam timing to 2° (crank) advanced of the cam key center for all 32V cams. This is the zero on the V2. The difference in the WSM measurements between sides equals 2° retard for the 1/4 bank to compensate for engine expansion advance.

It's much easier to get the correct timing with the 32V'r versus using a dial indicator.

PorKen

Different cam lobe profiles at 20° equate to different follower drop measurements.

Less likely, but valve spring pressure/belt tension could be a factor too.

Jack Riffle

UPDATE.......Just got everything back together and it runs MUCH better. Followed Porkens manual and it worked like a champ!!! I think now it might be An S-4.5.......

mark kibort

what about the spread between the two cams on each side. some are .3mm and some are .4mm, for the same lifter drop value on the driver side.
GT cams are .3mm difference between sides, while the S4 is .4mm between sides. seems that would be related to block expansion only.

Something ive alwasys wondered about.

EDIT: GT cams are .3mm differences between the two, which seems to follow a S4 GT, 10% rule between the two. (ie .2mm for the S4 cams as a difference, and .3mm between the two GT cams)

The older 85 cams have .4mm between them and i wonder if thats a function of different heads design, timing belt tensioner configuration, etc.

85 cams 1.6mm to 2mm
S4 cams 1.8mm to 2mm
GT cams 2.8mm to 3.1mm.

mk

david928

I replaced my T-belt a few weeks ago and used the 32V'r to check the valve timing. Like the pictures above, I was one tooth off on each side. At TDC the valve springs seemed to relax and moved the cams a little when removing the old belt, so it was easy to re-install the new belt one tooth off.

The PKsnr and 32Vr are great improvements. Thanks a lot Ken!

PorKen

Schweet. Were you able to adjust in the slots?

Jack Riffle

Yep, followed the manual and it adjusted perfectly.

mark kibort

I think the pictures are showing the valve timing off by about a 1/2 tooth pitch of distance or near 7degrees crank, as the pulleys are told to be right on the "V" mark index. (timed correctly) the only way the valve timeing could change is if you loosened the cam bolt and then the valve springs could push the cam around. Or I guess if the cam belt was put on, off a pulley tooth, certainly the porken tool would show this, but adjusting it with the slot adjustments wouldnt really be the right way, as we know, first you time the engine with the belt and cam pulleys aligned with the notches.

mk

Earl Gillstrom

I should have kept track, but fully 50% of the cars that I replace timing belts on come to me with the passenger side off 1 tooth. It is easy to do. The way I prevent it is to have the belt very tight over all pulleys and the passenger side about 1/2 tooth advanced. Then put the tensioner on and adjust tension. The 1/2 tooth advance disappears and the belt is in time. If the pulleys have not been disturbed then the Porken tool shows the timing to be very close, +/_ 1 degree. I usually wait until the re-tension at 1500 miles to do final timing if required. Many have the cams way out of time. I wish the cars could talk and tell me what happened to them.
One other trick: use "binder clips" to hold the belt in place until you get the tensioner on and adjusted. "Binder clips" are those oversized paper clips that your wife uses to hold large pads of paper together.
The owners of the cars with 1 tooth off are amazed at how much smoother the engine is with the cams in time.

MaineShark

To make the passenger side cam gear 1/2 tooth advanced like you suggest, do you turn it slightly clockwise or counterclockwise?

docmirror

Wow, scary. Glad the OP got his set right. If you have a 928, it might behoove you to take off the pax side dist and cover and look carefully at the timing marks again. About a 30 minute job I'd say.