jcorenman

I'm trying to help a friend get his lovely '85 Euro running after an engine R&R. Heinrich stopped by on Sunday to help, and we're all stumped, the problem is that it will start when cold and run for maybe 30 seconds, and then not restart with all the indications that it is flooded.

The car is a '85 euro 16v with the early (ver 2.2) LH and a MAF, no ISV (idle is set with a screw adjustment), no O2 sensor and the early "spider" intake. Ignition is dual distributors with a EZ/F brain.

The history: The engine suffered a TBF about 6 months ago, unfortunately hi-lift cams made it an interference engine and some valves got bent. Engine was pulled and heads refurb'ed, reassembled and reinstalled a couple of weeks ago. Fred is a ME and a master wrench, all that looks fine.

The problem: When cold (sitting overnight) the engine starts right up and runs OK (not great but sounds like it is firing on all 8), then revs itself up to 2000-3000 rpm, then slowly idles back and dies-- no response to throttle. And then it won't restart-- just a very quiet "popping" from the tailpipe (might just be valves opening rather than ignition) with a smell of fuel, and a strong fuel smell from the intake after begin cranked for 5-10 seconds. We pulled a plug, wet with fuel-- clearly flooded.

What we've checked: We've been over all of the vacuum conections multiple times, checked against the WSM and rearranged things a couple of times with no effect. We also put the mity-vac on the line that goes thru the left fender to the accumulator etc, all OK there.
The engine harness all looks OK, sleeving is cracked in a few places but the wires all look OK, connectors all look clean and 19-pin connector at jump-post is clean and bright with no corrosion.
The WSM description of the temp-2 sensor (p.24-115) sounded perfect-- "motor will not run in warm state, and will not start"-- but it measured fine, about 2.4K-ohms for both sensors. With sensor disconnected the connector showed 4.8 volts on each pin from the LH and EZ/F, so the harness connections are OK.
We also ran the MAF checks from the WSM (p. 24-113): removed and bridged relay XVI and measured batt-voltage on (disconnected) cable pins 2 & 4, 928 ohms from 3 to 6 (I know, useless without a picture!) and 4.0 ohms from 3 to 5, all per WSM.

Heinrich also suggested checking the vacuum side of the fuel-pressure regulator and dampeners for fuel, haven't done that yet. It could also be the LH, we don't have a spare 2.2 LH and I don't think a 2.3 will work, is that correct??

We ruled out fuel system (filter, pump) because it acts like it is flooded, and ruled out ignition because it runs briefly. Are we overlooking something there?

I am thinking that the MAF measurement of 928 ohms has to be a sign of something, maybe a message from the Seventh Etherians, but a search here turns up nothing.

Thanks in advance for any ideas!!
---Jim

PorKen

928 ohms for the MAF is almost max'ed out, rich. The range is 0-1000, in 14(?) turns.

Try adjusting the MAF CO screw CCW (3mm allen), until the 4/6 reading is ~380.

All 928 MAFs are the same 84-95.

IIRC, a ROW 16V w/LH2.2 will at least run with a 32V 85-86 LH.

Jadz928

Hmmm...
I wouldn't rule out a fuel delivery issue. Definitely check the proper function of the fuel regs and dampener. Check FP.
Ignition timing comes to mind. Is it possible the EZK took a dump?

mark kibort

double check that value for the temp II. There is a cold and hot range. when in doubt, you can put a resistor in series with the two connections that normally lead to the temp two switch. What you describe is what happens to the old buggers when the temp II is bad. are you sure it is hooked up with the proper connection. we mixed it up with the other connection that looks like it, but was powered. this voltage ended up cooking the temp II sensor, and then exhibited the same things you are seeing. maybe a bad maf? maybe ecu as you suggested.

mk

jcorenman

Thanks, Ken. The 928 ohms was pins 3/6, WSM spec'ed 0-1000 ohms but you are correct, confirmed with JDS's website 300-600 ohms. The odd thing is that the CO adjustment has obviously not been touched for some time, and the engine previously ran fine. (But every engine with problems previously ran fine before the problems started, right?)

But my understanding was that the engine would at least run with a missing/screwed-up MAF, no??
I'll double-check the connections and try our spare 2.3 LH.

Mark, I agree that it sure sounds like a temp-2 problem-- at least from what I've read. WSM says temp-2 resistance is 1.4--3.6K-ohms from 15 to 30C, our temp was 65-70F (around 20C) so the 2.4K seemed like the right ballpark. And there's voltage on the cable, so I am not seeing where the problem could be... Maybe check resistance at the LF connector with the box disconnected?

The real mystery is that it's not just running bad, it won't run at all past 30 seconds-- and won't restart. We've found a lot of "runs bad" threads with great ideas, but the symptoms don't fit.

Jim, agreed and many thanks-- certainly a leaky diaphragm in the regulator or damper would hose the intake with fuel.

Cheers, Jim

John Speake

Try unplugging the MAF to put it into limp home mode...........

jcorenman

It runs!! And of course you were all much too polite to mention the obvious: Check the cam timing, stupid!!!

This is a friend's '85 Euro which isn't supposed to be an interference engine but is, thanks to hi-lift cams which were fitted when one of the originals broke many years back. So the belt breaks, valves get bent, engine gets pulled and heads R&R'ed, everything carefully reassembled over a year's time, then it won't run more than briefly...

So after checking all of the obvious and less-obvious stuff, we finally get back to basics and check compression and WTF??? -- 110-120 on the right bank, 70-80 on the left... Yiikes!! Gotta be cam timing, right? (Or worse!!). So we set crank to #1 TDC and pop belt covers and ... What's the mark doing way over there??!! (I know, useless without pictures...).

Anyway it was off by three teeth... Since this is an interference engine the WSM instructions for a 16v didn't work and during assembly the crank had been set to 45-deg for belt install just like a 32v. But the cams were set to the zero-deg mark. A rather large brain fart many months ago, long since forgotten ...

So with that minor detail fixed it starts right and up runs great!!

Many thanks to everyone who contributed suggestions and ideas! I am sorry that no one won the grand prize (two free tickets to Sharktoberfest) but the help was really appreciated and kept us going.

Cheers, Jim