Tell me if you spot anything wierd in these two logs." #3 new intake" is just holding 3000 rpm's cruising along and "#4 new intake" is starting out sitting at a traffic light from 1st gear shifting up to 2nd then 3rd then lifting and then downshifting....no WOT, shifting at around 5000 rpm's.

If you had been following my previous thread I had some pretty serious surging going on, had a high idle (1100 rpm's) and discovered my Throttle Position Switch was working for the idle position but not sending the WOT position info and my Flappy was stuck. So now I've replaced the intake, rebuilt the Flappy in the new intake with new bearings, installed a new Idle valve and the SharkTuner shows the new parts to be functioning properly.

Well, the idle is still 1100 rpm's but the surging is almost gone. You really can't call it a surge at all anymore but if you hold 3000 rpm's in second or third and sometimes fourth gear you can occasionally sense a bit of a stumble and the AF ratio seems to swing pretty far.

The main thing I need you to look for on the log named #3 new intake" is the AF ratio swing, is that normal for cruising along at 3000 rpm's?

A couple things come to mind,
1) the SuperShark kit calls for two ball bearings to be placed in the test ports of the exhaust manifold to plug the test tubes...my kit didn't have the ball bearings (I ordered the parts in stages and forgot to tell Tim about it) so I found a couple of screws that would fit inside the compression nuts and used them to hopefully stop the leak...I'm wondering if I was succesful and if not could that cause my intermittent AF swing?

2) I'm at sea level and the tuning maps Tim created were done in Wisconsin...could that mean I need to tweak the tuning? Sorry but I'm definitely no tuner so if that question is really stupid have a laugh on me

Here are the two logs:

Right click the links and "save target as" then open with excel....

#3 new intake
And #4 new intake

Thanks for the help!

 

I'm sending the side plate seals hopefully this week so you can make sure they are not leaking.

 

Ist file is missing. 2nd file needs to have extension changed to xls. I did that and will look at it.

 

What I see mostly is that when cruising you are way, way too lean. How did you tune cruise?

If you have big injectors (say 42 lb) and select that in Sharktuner, you will idle fine but you will be way too lean on partial throttle and beyond. Even if you try to Sharktune from that you will end up lean as the whole fuel curve has been adjusted as if you were a normally aspirated car with 42 lb injectors. In other words, the fuel delivery has been turned way down and will be inadequate for a boosted car, and there may not be enough adjustment range to keep it from being lean. With boosted cars, I believe you should select a smaller injector setting than you have so there will be more fuel in the map under boost, and more range for enrichening, which you need. John Speake can correct this is I have it wrong, but that is what my little experience with Sharktuner seems to indicate. For example, I found that in my mildly boosted car with 30 lb injectors, if I used the 30 lb injector selection in Sharktune, the car idled fine bit was WAY lean elsewhere and in certain parts of the base fuel map I was still way lean even with the cell values max'd out (+128).

 

Bill, thanks, the maps are done by Tim Murphy for the StageIII kit, the injectors in the car are 42 lbs but I believe the selection in the SharkTuner shows up as something less (don't recall exactly).
I'm struggling with my FTP program to upload the files, I'll look into changing the extension...

thanks again!

WooHOO! got the other file uploaded and the ext changed on both!!!

 

Well, maybe there is something else wrong, but at this point I say you are simply way too lean on cruise. You seem to have immediate access to a Sharktuner. Did you try driving around and allowing Sharktuner to try to Autotune the base fuel map? I just started to do it in my car yesterday with Jim Morton's help.

 

Forgot to add, I also installed a new, stock, fuel pressure regulator to replace the adjustable one that was in the car from the previous owner (it had the smell of fuel in the vacuum line).
The fuel pressure with the new regulator when the relay is jumped is around 56 lbs with no vacuum.
The injectors are new but the rest of the fuel system is either original or replacement date unknown....

 

I guess I need to go to that step but I was afraid I would be tuning to hide a mechanical problem, although at this point unless it is a bad LH ECU or MAF or some restriction in the fuel delivery like filter or the dampers.... I guess I've replaced everything else.

Can I copy the file Tim sent then auto tune on top of it so to speak? The reason I ask is I have no safe place to do the WOT stuff and even some of the upper range of the cruise might be difficult to do. I'm hoping I could start with his map and auto tune the cruise range where I seem to be lean without rewriting the rest of the map? Does that make sense? I guess I need to talk to John and Tim on that.
I seem to be pretty well safe anytime the throttle is opened up or accelerating, it goes to 12 AF or below pretty quickly.

By the way the other file is available now if you hadn't noticed.
Does altitude make a difference in the tuning, I see Green Bay is only 581 feet higher than Myrtle Beach so probably not....

 

Craig,

I don't know if this applies to you but I had replaced almost every item with new when I had the engine out except the MAF and after the Stage 3 install had an idle of about 1000 - 1100 rpm. After much work and checking (I narrowed it down to at least a air leak thru the plastic cover on the MAF and/or just a bad MAF) I replaced the MAF and after the LH/ECU got re-mapped to the new MAF my idle settled down perfect and is now right at 650-700. AND the car runs much smoother at crusing RPM. At least I got that problem solved.

Note: I believe what happened or at least was part of the problem was when I installed the rubber elbow onto the MAF. The MAF was at an angle where the black plastic part got jammed against a hard fuel line fitting and cracked. That whole install back there a little tricky trying to make sure its not going to blow off and on tight. And of course there is no turning the MAF once the elbow in on it.

Now, sometimes worse that other times my idle is lumpy (not smooth) I suppect a vacumm leak somewhere and am hope to go in for another look tomorrow. I believe somehow my vacumm line to the auto tranny is the culprit.

By the way I don't have access to a sharktuner and plan just to run the chips Murf supplies. (I am at 8' above sea level)

 

Just an FYI...

This weekend I found something very interesting regarding the Innovate LC-1 WBO2 sensor (which I assume you are using - if not, please let me know and I'll post this somewhere else.)

The LC-1 has 2 analog outputs - 1 of which you plug into the STer. On my car, I use the other analog output to drive my AFR gauge on my dash. Lately I've noticed the car seems to be running lean all the time by about a 0.5~1.0. That is to say stoich is 14.7, but by car seemed to hunt around 15.2-15.7.

So this past weekend I plugged in my XD-16 gauge which uses the digital output from the WBO2 sensor and therefore is not subject to ground offsets. The XD-16 showed the car spot on at 14.7. So it was advised by a very wise man to run a ground wire from the block to the analog output ground points. I haven't done this yet to see if that resolves the disparity, but I'm pretty sure it will.

I just thought that after watching this, that you might want to also run a ground wire from the block to ensure you don't get any kind of ground offset. Just thought I'd pass it along.

 

Thanks Andrew,
Yes I do have some Innovate stuff installed.
The LC-1 feeds the Shark Tuner, a DL-32 for temp probes, rpm's etc. and logging and the XD-16 gauge. I have two grounds for the innovate stuff, I believe one is for the LC-1 and a separate one for the DL-32, one being at the engines ground strap connection to the passenger side chassis and the other one is to an oil pan stud (I don't recall which is for each device).

The XD-16 is showing the same wide swinging of the AF ratio as the Shark Tuner...I feel the stumbling or hesitation while holding the throttle steady at 3000 rpm's and look down at the gauge and it has shot up to the 18 to 19 range then it goes rich and then back to holding around the 14 to 15 mark for a while until the next time it stumbles....


I'm thinking of disconnecting all of it temporarily just to see if things change, probably wouldn't hurt to do a new free air calibration of the LC-1 anyway and it would give me a chance to inspect the ground strap connection I disturbed.

 

Andrew,

I am running the stock O2 sensor with the ARM1 splitsecond hooked up in the normal fashion??

Didn't know I should be using a different O2 sensor.

 

Thanks David,
I've had the MAF boot clamps pop off, both the upper 90 degree fitting that came with the kit and the factory clamp under the MAF (not at the same time).
In fact my T clamp is broken now. Somehow the threads have been buggered up enough so that last time I tried to loosen it the nut got cross threaded trying to back it off and the "T" part twisted out of the clamp itself.

I'm experimenting with different ways to strap the MAF using the two slotted tabs that are part of the upper flange on it but I only have a typical Home Depot worm gear clamp on the 90 degree boot right now so no WOT for me until I find a better clamp or get Tim to send me another.

I'll look into the MAF leak you mentioned although last time I pressurized the system there was no sign of leak there (haven't pressure tested with the new intake on yet).
I'm tempted to call Louie and have him send me a new MAF just to eliminate the possibility but my Shark fund is getting low so I'm trying to trouble shoot a little more thoroughly before ordering more parts.

 

IMO the split second with a NBO2 only gives you a mild indication of rich vs. lean conditions. It does not have the resolution to say how rich or how lean. So you might be 15.7 AFR and be in the red or you may be at 17.7. You just can't tell - but then you really don't need to know unless you are boosted or running NOS.

 

Pressurize it... things can get loose when you're sharktuning.

BTW, went to Green Bay and played with Murf this past weekend. What an awsome time. It was fun to have 2 boosted 928's rolling down the road at 140+, on a closed course...