S4 A/T rebuild thread
09-05-2011, 01:03 AM
#76
Race Car
This car, this post is by the previous owner:
https://rennlist.com/forums/1710937-post4.html
There were some old threads with trans advice from a "Steve Cataneo" (I think, too)...referenced in the thread the above post is taken from.
HTH.
https://rennlist.com/forums/1710937-post4.html
There were some old threads with trans advice from a "Steve Cataneo" (I think, too)...referenced in the thread the above post is taken from.
HTH.
09-05-2011, 02:58 AM
#77
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Steve is absolutely the A/T guru. He makes his living doing this kind of work, has been very open and helpful on this list, and has created some monster trannies for the 928. He doesn't want to share some of his specialized experience (and he has already shared plenty) which I totally understand and respect. Anyone wanted a bomb proof tranny should unquestionably send it to him to rebuild and modify.
Fortunately, the car you posted about (Pappy's S4) has found its way to the PacNW. I haven't had a chance to ride in it yet, but I'm very curious to see how it drives. One thing I'm not so dead set on is modifying the Torque Converter. If you want your car to drive like a dragster I could understand this mod. Pappy was big into cleaving down his 0-60 times, he was really focused on maximizing accelaration from a standing start. I'm not looking to do power brake launches and have the car grab the next gear like a top fuel dragster, I need my tranny more compliant than that for my driving style and driving on the track. I was concerned about the tranny having enough strength for the torque of a stroker motor, but since I'm not going to be abusing it so much from a standing start, I've been questioning how big of a concern it really should be.
Still, it would be nice to have some answers on the cost/benefits of adding discs to the clutch packs, and further sourcing AMG hard parts.
Fortunately, the car you posted about (Pappy's S4) has found its way to the PacNW. I haven't had a chance to ride in it yet, but I'm very curious to see how it drives. One thing I'm not so dead set on is modifying the Torque Converter. If you want your car to drive like a dragster I could understand this mod. Pappy was big into cleaving down his 0-60 times, he was really focused on maximizing accelaration from a standing start. I'm not looking to do power brake launches and have the car grab the next gear like a top fuel dragster, I need my tranny more compliant than that for my driving style and driving on the track. I was concerned about the tranny having enough strength for the torque of a stroker motor, but since I'm not going to be abusing it so much from a standing start, I've been questioning how big of a concern it really should be.
Still, it would be nice to have some answers on the cost/benefits of adding discs to the clutch packs, and further sourcing AMG hard parts.
03-05-2012, 09:16 PM
#78
Adam,
It's going to drive much differently than it did when I brought it up here, since I have a new TC in the back of the van.
Just today I brought old the TC to Cascade Torque Converter in Marysville to tear it apart and look at it for indications of the source of driveline vibrations. I was impressed with their operation. Discovered that there were some 'liberties' taken with the stall mods, according to Cascade who builds their own. They sold me a rebuilt stock unit that was sitting on their shelf for a very reasonable price.
1. Extreme notch taken out of the stator vane to get from 2100 to 2400 stall.
2. 'Homemade' vanes that were not uniform.
3. All stator parts brass soldered to case.
4. Was not balanced after rebuild.
I'm sure they'd sell it to you if you want it!
They gave me the stator so you'll have to get that from me. They didn't want it.
I'm going to post some photos on my driveline saga thread.
I have Greg's records of the gears and clutches he bought for it, and they're the standard Porsche/Mercedes part numbers out of PET. An email from Pappy indicates that the parts were ordered from Germany directly; maybe that's why he thought they were AMG parts. I know that he was corresponding with Steve C., asking about a 'billet' planetary gear set that Steve supposedly made, but don't have any record of a response from Steve. I think the concept of 'AMG Gears' needs to be put to bed.
In any event, the next time you, me, and the car are in the same place you can run it through (most of) the gears.
Bill
It's going to drive much differently than it did when I brought it up here, since I have a new TC in the back of the van.
Just today I brought old the TC to Cascade Torque Converter in Marysville to tear it apart and look at it for indications of the source of driveline vibrations. I was impressed with their operation. Discovered that there were some 'liberties' taken with the stall mods, according to Cascade who builds their own. They sold me a rebuilt stock unit that was sitting on their shelf for a very reasonable price.
1. Extreme notch taken out of the stator vane to get from 2100 to 2400 stall.
2. 'Homemade' vanes that were not uniform.
3. All stator parts brass soldered to case.
4. Was not balanced after rebuild.
I'm sure they'd sell it to you if you want it!
They gave me the stator so you'll have to get that from me. They didn't want it.I'm going to post some photos on my driveline saga thread.
I have Greg's records of the gears and clutches he bought for it, and they're the standard Porsche/Mercedes part numbers out of PET. An email from Pappy indicates that the parts were ordered from Germany directly; maybe that's why he thought they were AMG parts. I know that he was corresponding with Steve C., asking about a 'billet' planetary gear set that Steve supposedly made, but don't have any record of a response from Steve. I think the concept of 'AMG Gears' needs to be put to bed.
In any event, the next time you, me, and the car are in the same place you can run it through (most of) the gears.
Bill
03-05-2012, 09:22 PM
#79
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Glad you're getting it sorted Bill, you will be the resident 928 A/T Chieftan after all of this.
I look forward to our next get together so we can chat (and drive!).
I look forward to our next get together so we can chat (and drive!).
03-05-2012, 10:30 PM
#81
Race Car
onward
Interesting. Scratch Hughes off my list. There has also been some traffic about Steve and possible troubles there.
At any rate, on the LS forums I was on with my GTO, there were similar shenanigans from smaller trans/perf shops trying to modify converters, but also some seemingly great work by the bona-fides. In order to hit middle ground, which again was common with the LS platforms, takes a good hand. Sure wish a good opty existed for 928/722.3
At any rate, on the LS forums I was on with my GTO, there were similar shenanigans from smaller trans/perf shops trying to modify converters, but also some seemingly great work by the bona-fides. In order to hit middle ground, which again was common with the LS platforms, takes a good hand. Sure wish a good opty existed for 928/722.3
03-07-2012, 04:44 PM
#83
Rennlist Member
If AMG is the sole performance outlet for a Mercedes... it stands to reason that those parts would have a standard format Mercedes part number. Just like racing parts for a Cup car would have a standard format Porsche number... only sourced from PMS (Porsche Motorsports) rather than PAG.
I would be curious to find out if a numerically higher ring gear for our auto LSD is an off-the-shelf item at MB.
Also, if AMG had performance automatics based off of the MB unit we have in our 928's... I would not be at all surprised if the material used was stronger -and thusly available for purchase & installation in our automatics. It would be even cooler if theirs had a Sport/Economy selector switch that could be sync'd into our systems.
Ahhh, the possibilities!
03-07-2012, 05:04 PM
#84
The gears ordered for my transmission were the planetary gear set for the transmission, not the differential. I think you're saying that if someone gave the Porsche part number for those gears to AMG, that the parts received back would be stronger parts - but with the same part number.
When I asked Greg what people meant when they said they had AMG gears, he said 'I don't know'. The gears shown on Greg's receipt for the rebuild have Porsche Pet part numbers and presumably were given to the sublet re-builder for his fitment. And this car is the only car I could find on RL whose owner asserted that they had AMG gears. And I have all of the receipts for this car, so I don't think they were installed at a later time.
It would be great if I had special hardened gears in my car, and that they could be ordered by others if they wanted. I just don't know if it's true.
When I asked Greg what people meant when they said they had AMG gears, he said 'I don't know'. The gears shown on Greg's receipt for the rebuild have Porsche Pet part numbers and presumably were given to the sublet re-builder for his fitment. And this car is the only car I could find on RL whose owner asserted that they had AMG gears. And I have all of the receipts for this car, so I don't think they were installed at a later time.
It would be great if I had special hardened gears in my car, and that they could be ordered by others if they wanted. I just don't know if it's true.
03-07-2012, 05:57 PM
#85
Rennlist Member
Not sure if there would be an interchange listed between AMG & Porsche numbers... but there is between Porsche & Mercedes numbers for trans parts.
What I am suggesting is an interchange between Mercedes & AMG. I would think it would then be a direct bolt-in for a 928.
Essentially, providing the 722.3 Mercedes number and see if AMG offers anything above the basic grocery-getter transmission.
eg.: if the 722.4 is for the 190 series (less power), and the 722.3 is for the 380 series -perhaps AMG has a 'High Performance' equivalent.
What I am suggesting is an interchange between Mercedes & AMG. I would think it would then be a direct bolt-in for a 928.
Essentially, providing the 722.3 Mercedes number and see if AMG offers anything above the basic grocery-getter transmission.
eg.: if the 722.4 is for the 190 series (less power), and the 722.3 is for the 380 series -perhaps AMG has a 'High Performance' equivalent.
10-11-2017, 10:59 PM
#86
Team Owner
bump to find it
