H2

I once bought a car based on the sizzle coupled with my imagination...and the sizzle turned out to be thick smoke. I was PO'ed. I prefer detailed descriptions over surprises. I've not sold several cars because I was totally upfront about the condition, the warts, etc. I rather sleep well at night than misrepresent or mislead. Yeah, I know. Caveat Emptor rules. Along with a good PPI.

H2

docmirror

Hey - I haven't said a word here !

Since I've been 'called out' I'll add a few cents worth. Pricing a car is a guessing game. Right now, anything that uses gas isn't selling well. Boats and planes are being repossessed at an alarming rate. Geo Metros going for ~ $4000! Tahoes piling up on dealer lots like flies.

Even idiots are getting a basic understanding of the TCO curve. So, although this is a vintage, high perf, moderately rare car, which has been loved by the seller, market forces ultimately will tell the tale.

These cars sit, and sit, and sit unless they have some remarkable element that makes them unique like low mileage. Sadly, the 928 is a niche market, and that market seems to keep shrinking.

So, while I would like to believe that my car, or any other nicely done up GT is worth $25k+, the reality is that there just isn't a big call for them, outside of our little group here. Me, being the king of low-ball, bottom-feeding, discounts wouldn't be interested in such a fine sample. I commend Ryan for setting this up so nicely, and hope you get a good price. However, please don't get your hopes too high.

Kaz

There are quite a few experienced professional sales people on this forum but Ryan, you've demonstrated time and again that you are not willing to listen to any advice. In one post you said a suggestion read to you as "boring". Well it doesn't really matter how it reads to you. You are no longer the buyer. What matters is how it will read to a prospective buyer and Jim is spot on in having to lure the potential buyer in. Charley mentions that there are two types of buyers for this car. In my opinion your ad manages to turn both of them off before they've been lured in by any honey. All that up front information overload reinforces the negatives of the 928 to the inexperienced prospective buyer who you can rest assured has a bunch of friends telling him not to do it. To the experienced 928 owner/buyer it simply tells them that you're "one of those guys" and they'll wander off to find a car that is less of a hassle. You've essentially limited yourself to yourself in the purchase of your 928.

RyanPerrella

I am not willing to listen to advice?

I have listened,i have cut the ad down but i will not simply state "1990 928 GT 120,000 miles Black/tan manual transmission."

Sorry but I think more needs to be said.

Why does Porsche provide 40 page brochures trying to sell a vehicle? Why do they produce thorough web programs detailing their new models. Why? because people care, people want to read about it. Again, look at the example i set forth, thats simply not enough information (year, mileage color). And again, I DONT LIKE SURPRISES! What did Jim say, well someone saw a car, as they looked further and further into it you saw more and more and more issues. I am upfront with the issues and I much prefer that. I dont want surprises, i dont need more drama, especially when it comes to buying a car. Maybe we just think differently, I dont know, but i have taken the advice and reduced the descriptive content of the ad to what i consider essential information. Again, i am the seller, i can choose to sell the car or not. I am trying to though, but I think your looking at extremes here. If the information i provided turns a potential buyer off, then thats fine with me and i'll tell you why. It would be discussed by me at some point either in the initial ad, or later at the point of sale or over the phone. POINT IS, if any of that stuff turns someone off, then fine. I would rather it be in the first inning then the bottom of the ninth. Its better for both parties. Regardless these things will be stated and discussed at some point, why not have it be upfront? Why not?

We will see if it sells, and if it doesn't then it doesn't. Lets call it a learning experience and go from there ok.

Cheers

Kaz

Ryan I hear you but what I also see is a lot of "I" and you are no longer the prospective purchaser of your car. Porsche provides 40 page brochures that get handed out to tire kickers and 14 year olds who cut them apart and paste them on their wall. If a Porsche sales person can get you into the car and on the test drive in 5 minutes you won't even be aware that Porsche prints 40 page brochure. The web programs detail their new models which have warranties and never even hint at the remote possibility the car will need a wrench near it.

No one is telling you to surprise a prospective owner with issues. If done properly you will be able to get them in love with your car at almost first sight and thoroughly inform them of everything your car has to offer while making them feel like they're being invited to the most exclusive club on the planet.

What more learning experience are you looking for? Most everyone here has bought and sold numerous 928's.

"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." ~Douglas Adams

RyanPerrella

well i think its foolish to say that providing information on specifics of a car's history will turn everyone off.

I honestly dont think it will turn anyone off (i am selling a restored GT, why wouldn't i detail the specifics of its restoration?), let alone turn EVERYONE off.

I think the points have been made, and while i disagree with some i appreciate them.

ErnestSw

There are none so deaf as those who WILL not hear.

JWise

Ryan,

I agree with what Sterling said above, take a look at Low Miler's old ads. Particularly, if you can find it, the red 89GT with high miles that he sold to another lister. He emphasized that despite the mileage, it was concours condition, which the photos showed it to be (same as yours).

I'd be very cautious about using the term "restoration". To some people, this could imply the car was run down when you got it. There are still well maintained 928s available that have not needed a "complete rolling restoration". That term could turn these buyers off your car and keep them looking for a car that is, and always has been, pristine. I'd simply describe it as being an extremely well maintained 928, whose condition is far superior to what the mileage might suggest, and leave it at that.

HTH!

P.S. I do hope you get your price.

RyanPerrella

Ok so what about the generic statement of "Well maintained 928 with xxx amount of dollars spent in the past few years"?

Or do i not mention things that have been replaced? But then dont i then not mention the rebuilt engine? Then i think were getting to a slippery slope here. Then its as if i am trying to hide that fact when i dont want to.

Also, the crap ive done, can been seen as wear able items. Why am i the only person that sees that? MAF's go, **** breaks, and things dont function as well as they once did 20 years later. I still just dont understand why those things are a detriment and would limit buyers. I just dont see it. And for all you that keep telling me this help me understand this.

The way i see it, if i ignore whats been done I a) underselling the restoration on the car b) not being upfront with an engine rebuild. I dont know how i can simply not mention such things because i know if i just list the car color and mileage that the first question i will be asked is "isnt this that car that had the engine rebuilt?" or isnt this that car that blah blah blah? I think i then could be seen as trying to hide truth's about that car that frankly i think are positives.

Honestly, no offense to ANYONE. I think this is getting way way way over analyzed to the point im putting off doing the actual ad and nothing is getting done. I think there are many different ways to interpret things and i am not a psychologist and i am thinking now that this is being way over analyzed. I think the description isnt as big a deal. Again if someone wants more information i am a phone call away. But i think that to a casual observer, seeing that so much time, effort and care has been put into this car will perhaps get more people to call then will turn people off. Still i think there is way to much thought going into this description that again takes all of 3 minutes to read. If you get bored reading about a car that you may want to buy after 3 minutes, then you dont really want the car. Simple as that! I know allot of you here when you first bought your cars would spend hours upon hours researching 928's and reading books and test reports on them. Maybe you dont anymore because you already know so much about them. I dont read about 928's anymore, cause ive owned one now 2 for the past 2 years. I am interested in other things now. Maybe you just have jaded eyes and just are bored cause its crap you already know. I have no idea, it doesnt matter, here i am now trying to rationalize my perspective and this is just going on and on ...........

I need to play to THIS CARS strengths! This cars strengths are a huge list of maintanence which has been done to "restore" the car to a great driving condition with allot of use parts refreshed and new that the car should require NO attention for years to come. Thats the strength of my car. Thats what i need to play up, thats what i am selling, thats what seperates my car from any other that will require purchase price PLUS $X,XXX getting it up to snuff. My car is not a low mile garage queen, so i cant sell it on the fact that its all original. I see my cars plus points and i need to make it clear what those are. Otherwise its just a pretender garage queen with 120,000 miles which i dont find that interesting.

Anyway, i think weve covered this. I will run the ad with a "descriptive description" and see where it takes me. If that doesnt work, you can all shout "TOLD YA SO" but I just see too many questions coming up if i am not upfront with the car. Thats how i work, thats what i appreciate and thats what i am going to go with.

M. Requin

Ryan,

Absolutely no disrespect, but you have obviously made up your mind, so PLACE THE AD! And then let us know how it turns out...

RyanPerrella

agreed Martin

Topic relating to ad description closed.

I am still interested in ending time. What's the best time? I guess i like the idea of a weed day end time around 9 eastern. That should give anyone and everyone a chance to put in their last minute bids on both coasts.

Alan

I agree you should do what you think best - and see how it works...

I will say as a buyer - I want to know about the condition of a car - good photo's and details of what works perfectly are useful as are lists of known issues.

What you did or had done is only of interest in specific cases... I want to know it has been well maintained and that key service items were done - timing belt, water pump (when?) I'm also interested in knowing if it has full service records - or at least recent service records...

I don't really want to know every last detail of whats been replaced/repaired or worked on - though I'd like to get that list with the car...

I have such a (long) list for my car including professional maintenance and items I have done. I would not include that list in an ad but I would deliver it to a buyer or show it to a prospective buyer.

I would expect someone reading my list would be mentally adding up the costs in their head and dividing by my years of ownership... I'm not sure this is pretty picture - yours is certainly similar... think about it....

YMMV - you should do what you want - you asked for advice and you gat a bunch of it... now its your call...

Alan

Jadz928

Again, I'll relfect on what others have already said. End on a weekend, aroung 10pm EST
From my experience and many others on eBay, this is primetime.

Jim bailey - 928 International

No one NEEDS a 928 some just WANT one. Want is an emotion therefore NOT LOGICAL or RATIONAL . The guy who has dreamed of one since he was 12 years old may well have never been inside one and less likely to have driven one. I can assure you that in his dream he was not FIXING it or PAYING repair bills. The poster he had on the wall looked like a new car .....all stock , fresh, original. People buying a used car, any used car, want to believe that it is JUST LIKE NEW and was always like that ! They decide that they WANT it at first glance....they then may halfheartedly look for a reason why they should NOT buy it ! It is a bit like dating ....first impression , best not to mention that you had a heart transplant , teeth straightened , knees replaced , used to be hooked on Meth , twice divorced , bankrupt ; before she knows your name

FBIII

6 eastern time is too early for the east coast and far too early for those on the west coast to end the auction. 10 eastern is 7 western time, just barely enough time for the west coasters coming home from work to see it. I'm still partial to Sunday evening endings as most people going places over the weekend return by dinner time Sunday.