FS: 928 16v Hybrid Engine
06-23-2008, 07:41 PM
#16
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Hehe, you think this is a wicked motor...how about my other project: targeting ~350 BHP out of a 2.2L stroked (yes, stroked) and boosted hybrid turbo (K26 hot side + K27 cold side) producing ~20 psi boost and intercooled. All that dropped into a ~2200 lb. fully lightened 931 chassis. Can you say "power-to-weight ratio"?!?!?
That's the project responsible for putting this one on the back burner ;-) Can't justify having two cars inop at the same time, so the shark is gonna stay in stock form until the monster 931 is completed.
If 924board.org ever comes back online, I'll post links to my other project, which is well documented over there. Here's a link to my picasa album in the meantime:
http://picasaweb.google.com/ideola11...1UltraWideBody
That's the project responsible for putting this one on the back burner ;-) Can't justify having two cars inop at the same time, so the shark is gonna stay in stock form until the monster 931 is completed.
If 924board.org ever comes back online, I'll post links to my other project, which is well documented over there. Here's a link to my picasa album in the meantime:
http://picasaweb.google.com/ideola11...1UltraWideBody
06-23-2008, 07:44 PM
#17
Nordschleife Master
That engine would be nice in my race car but not at $6k. In fact PCA has made it so there is really no need to spend a fortune on a GT car anymore (thank you PCA CR!!!) by including weight, cams, and displacement in the formula for GT class race cars! YEA!
That said, a 4.7L (or better the hybrid 5.0 Euro) motor I think would leave you in the same class as the 4.5L US motor and with MUCH more power...probably 125 more HP!!! That would be SWEET! 350HP, 3700# (w/o driver and WITH 1/3rd tank gas) and I would run in GT4 or 5!!! NICE!
$6k on a motor...NOT GONNA HAPPEN...if only my money tree would get to growing!
06-23-2008, 08:00 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
but why mess with the cheby conversion when this 5 liter technique conversion is so darn easy! you then have a car that can keep up with the Z06s with the LS2 motors!
This is a great option for an early car. instantly covert your 79 or euro to a 5 liter. If you got a US engine, you will toss the intake, and have to find the euro runners, plennum and throttle body .(no need for this stuff unless you have a CIS model) then you really get a boost in power. Scots 4.5 went from 180rwhp to 218 rwhp modded and then 250 with all euro stuff on a 4.7 engine change, to 290rwhp with the euro stuff on a 5liter bottom end. (thats near 340 flywheel hp!)
mk
This is a great option for an early car. instantly covert your 79 or euro to a 5 liter. If you got a US engine, you will toss the intake, and have to find the euro runners, plennum and throttle body .(no need for this stuff unless you have a CIS model) then you really get a boost in power. Scots 4.5 went from 180rwhp to 218 rwhp modded and then 250 with all euro stuff on a 4.7 engine change, to 290rwhp with the euro stuff on a 5liter bottom end. (thats near 340 flywheel hp!)
mk
I fully agree with you that i'd love to have this motor in my OB. Your arguement is valid. I've always said even before I bought this car that if the motor goes it's getting an LS1 chebby motor. I won't even mess with 4.5 motors. I can't imagine the performance of the 928 with a LS1 in it. Such a lite car with so much power must be awesome. My 98 Trans Am has an LS1 in it and it's just plain wicked.
06-23-2008, 08:05 PM
#19
Race Car
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but why mess with the cheby conversion when this 5 liter technique conversion is so darn easy! you then have a car that can keep up with the Z06s with the LS2 motors!
This is a great option for an early car. instantly covert your 79 or euro to a 5 liter. If you got a US engine, you will toss the intake, and have to find the euro runners, plennum and throttle body .(no need for this stuff unless you have a CIS model) then you really get a boost in power. Scots 4.5 went from 180rwhp to 218 rwhp modded and then 250 with all euro stuff on a 4.7 engine change, to 290rwhp with the euro stuff on a 5liter bottom end. (thats near 340 flywheel hp!)
mk
This is a great option for an early car. instantly covert your 79 or euro to a 5 liter. If you got a US engine, you will toss the intake, and have to find the euro runners, plennum and throttle body .(no need for this stuff unless you have a CIS model) then you really get a boost in power. Scots 4.5 went from 180rwhp to 218 rwhp modded and then 250 with all euro stuff on a 4.7 engine change, to 290rwhp with the euro stuff on a 5liter bottom end. (thats near 340 flywheel hp!)
mk
06-23-2008, 08:15 PM
#20
Nordschleife Master
Mark,
You sure make it sound easy, but $6k and having to take and engine completely apart to cut pistons does not sound easy or cheap to me in anyway! Cheaper than a chevy conversion maybe, but cheap, or easy, I think NOT!
You sure make it sound easy, but $6k and having to take and engine completely apart to cut pistons does not sound easy or cheap to me in anyway! Cheaper than a chevy conversion maybe, but cheap, or easy, I think NOT!
06-23-2008, 08:49 PM
#22
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Guys, there's no need to take the complete engine apart, I've already done the hard work for you ;-) And to be clear, this engine comes with ALL of the intake, runners, throttle body and everything. If you already have an early shark, just pull the motor, remove the oil pan and fly wheel, and drop this baby in. Done.
06-23-2008, 09:48 PM
#24
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
06-23-2008, 10:07 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
thats what it cost to build the 5 liter conversion, INCLUDING the engine!. (probably more like $2500) , But still a heck of a lot easier than any conversion kit. I know, ive done it a few times.
Mk
Mk
06-23-2008, 10:27 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
The right way to do it is to get a used 5 liter short block and take it apart and flycut the pistons.
short block $1000
rings $150
bearings $200
seals $75
fly cut the pistons, $250. (oriented the "proper" way for more power
)
You dont need to balance the engine, as it is already balanced. you are not changing anything there. Just a simple re-ring job. Have the guy that does the fly cutting, put the rings on for you if you havent done that before.
put bearings in case halfs with crank and use 518 or yamabond and seal the case and torque the bolts.
install oil pump, put in pistons, torque down rod caps, put on oil pan and oil pickup, DONE.
get a head gasket set (exhaust gaskets are usually good, and so are intake gaskets, but see how they look. ) Install heads, water pump timing belt and tensioner with pulleys and harmonic balancer, and bolt on the flywheel.
Install intake system, and you are actually done.
parts and labor cost in total, near $2k
the way scot did it was WAY more expensive, but we didnt need to buy a 5 liter block, just bore out the ruined 4.7. and buy used 5 liter pistons about$3k later, and we had a 5 liter that was very nice and balanced all the rotaing components, as they were all from different engines.
so, you figure any 5 liter engine that is already done is , easily worth $3k min due to the $2k it takes to make one, and $1k of work to build it. 1-2k for euro heads is a good deal, especially with a new valve job, and $2000 for a good set of euro cams, with the famed, euro intake is a good deal as well.
So, there is $7k, and 6K if you didnt charge for labor. Thats why this $6k is a good deal
But, if you got all the stuff already, then you can build a 5 liter for about $2k.
(for euro owners already). If you are US 4.5-7, you need to think about intake heads, and cams. This is where the used S4 or S3 becomes such a compelling deal. But, there is something to be said for building up a car you know and is in good shape. (interior, trans, suspension,etc). This is where its a good deal to spend the 6k and have an almost supercar!
mk
short block $1000
rings $150
bearings $200
seals $75
fly cut the pistons, $250. (oriented the "proper" way for more power
)You dont need to balance the engine, as it is already balanced. you are not changing anything there. Just a simple re-ring job. Have the guy that does the fly cutting, put the rings on for you if you havent done that before.
put bearings in case halfs with crank and use 518 or yamabond and seal the case and torque the bolts.
install oil pump, put in pistons, torque down rod caps, put on oil pan and oil pickup, DONE.
get a head gasket set (exhaust gaskets are usually good, and so are intake gaskets, but see how they look. ) Install heads, water pump timing belt and tensioner with pulleys and harmonic balancer, and bolt on the flywheel.
Install intake system, and you are actually done.
parts and labor cost in total, near $2k
the way scot did it was WAY more expensive, but we didnt need to buy a 5 liter block, just bore out the ruined 4.7. and buy used 5 liter pistons about$3k later, and we had a 5 liter that was very nice and balanced all the rotaing components, as they were all from different engines.
so, you figure any 5 liter engine that is already done is , easily worth $3k min due to the $2k it takes to make one, and $1k of work to build it. 1-2k for euro heads is a good deal, especially with a new valve job, and $2000 for a good set of euro cams, with the famed, euro intake is a good deal as well.
So, there is $7k, and 6K if you didnt charge for labor. Thats why this $6k is a good deal
But, if you got all the stuff already, then you can build a 5 liter for about $2k.
(for euro owners already). If you are US 4.5-7, you need to think about intake heads, and cams. This is where the used S4 or S3 becomes such a compelling deal. But, there is something to be said for building up a car you know and is in good shape. (interior, trans, suspension,etc). This is where its a good deal to spend the 6k and have an almost supercar!
mk
06-24-2008, 01:14 AM
#27
Rennlist Member
I ended up buying John Veninger's 16V Euro Hybrid about 18 months ago. All I know, is the power is great and it looks completely stock to the untrained eye. Plus working on an OB engine is easy; wiring harness has seven or so connections. TB job is simpler too. The body is light as I did rear seat delete among other things. I know I could keep up or surpass an s4.
The real question is do you like your current ride well enough to drop the cash in it...if so...go for it...if not...find an s4...
By the way, my buddy was looking at doing a 924 chebby conversion and it was in the ball park of $12-14K.
Good luck...
The real question is do you like your current ride well enough to drop the cash in it...if so...go for it...if not...find an s4...
By the way, my buddy was looking at doing a 924 chebby conversion and it was in the ball park of $12-14K.
Good luck...
06-24-2008, 01:40 AM
#28
Nordschleife Master
Dan,
Sorry to hear that you are selling all those nice bits and pieces you bought all those years ago.
but you spelt my name wrong
BTW for anyone considering this, Dan is a standup guy!
When Dan purchased all these bits and pieces the prices of these cars, and bits were substancially cheaper.
But to be honest if you bolted it all together you might get $4k to the right buyer now. Or you sell the pieces indivdually and make abit more.
good luck either way Dan.
Sorry to hear that you are selling all those nice bits and pieces you bought all those years ago.
but you spelt my name wrong
BTW for anyone considering this, Dan is a standup guy!
When Dan purchased all these bits and pieces the prices of these cars, and bits were substancially cheaper.
But to be honest if you bolted it all together you might get $4k to the right buyer now. Or you sell the pieces indivdually and make abit more.
good luck either way Dan.
07-03-2008, 11:55 AM
#29
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Colin, sorry about the typo!
I debated a long time about offering this up...I just hate to see it sit in a crate for the next two years while I finish the wide body 931 project, and I can't justify taking the 928 out of commission when it's perfectly fine as is. My new rule is only one car down at a time...keep the four running cars on the road until the UWB project is done, then tackle the next project.
As for bolting it all together, I'd need to pick up the complete top and bottom seal kits...part of my issue is that I don't want to cannibalize my UWB project funds right now. Besides, if I bolted it together, I might as well just drop it in my own car!
I'd love to see someone put this thing to good use, but if it doesn't sell, I'll eventually get around to it.
I debated a long time about offering this up...I just hate to see it sit in a crate for the next two years while I finish the wide body 931 project, and I can't justify taking the 928 out of commission when it's perfectly fine as is. My new rule is only one car down at a time...keep the four running cars on the road until the UWB project is done, then tackle the next project.
As for bolting it all together, I'd need to pick up the complete top and bottom seal kits...part of my issue is that I don't want to cannibalize my UWB project funds right now. Besides, if I bolted it together, I might as well just drop it in my own car!
I'd love to see someone put this thing to good use, but if it doesn't sell, I'll eventually get around to it.
