Attn Tim Murphy (long rant)
05-27-2008, 12:58 PM
#122
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Eh, late report. I restarted Konstantin's car cold after sitting for 5 hours and it surged as I pulled it into the garage. We'll see how it behaves tomorrow. If it's just a cold start thing we'll live with it for now. So, maybe we can test Tim's new difuser, at least while the car warms up. Need to finalize the fan setup and tidy up a few more things so he can hit the road on Thursday.
I have a stock S4 in my garage. I will remove the air box and install a rubber elbow to see if I can create the same surge you are experiencing.
I already have two simple prototypes of my diffuser ideas made so I will be able to test them out right away. Even if I cannot create a surge with just the elbow I will dry my diffusers and make sure I don't create another problem.
If all works out well, I will overnight something to you. I'll chime in with my results when I get them.
Tim
05-27-2008, 01:57 PM
#123
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Hi Bill,
I have a stock S4 in my garage. I will remove the air box and install a rubber elbow to see if I can create the same surge you are experiencing.
I already have two simple prototypes of my diffuser ideas made so I will be able to test them out right away. Even if I cannot create a surge with just the elbow I will dry my diffusers and make sure I don't create another problem.
If all works out well, I will overnight something to you. I'll chime in with my results when I get them.
Tim
I have a stock S4 in my garage. I will remove the air box and install a rubber elbow to see if I can create the same surge you are experiencing.
I already have two simple prototypes of my diffuser ideas made so I will be able to test them out right away. Even if I cannot create a surge with just the elbow I will dry my diffusers and make sure I don't create another problem.
If all works out well, I will overnight something to you. I'll chime in with my results when I get them.
Tim
Maybe try the MAF rotation orientation tests like BB described.
05-27-2008, 02:03 PM
#124
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I doubt that will help as it surges when the pipe is completely removed and just the boot is on, but truth is stranger than fiction, so I WILL try it. THANKS!
BACK....
Nope, that didn't do it. I only partially seated the boot and it still surged. I connected the intake tube but left it only slightly inserted and the surge was just as bad. I'm about ready to go to Home Depot and look for a consistent 3-1/2" elbow and try to get rid of the abrupt ID transition in the elbow and see if that helps.
BACK....
Nope, that didn't do it. I only partially seated the boot and it still surged. I connected the intake tube but left it only slightly inserted and the surge was just as bad. I'm about ready to go to Home Depot and look for a consistent 3-1/2" elbow and try to get rid of the abrupt ID transition in the elbow and see if that helps.
Bill,
I ran into this same issue during the SC build. have a look at the build page (in mysignature) and see what I did to resove it. The large steel elbow was from a Mack dealer.
05-27-2008, 03:07 PM
#125
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Glad to hear Bill.... Good job!
(For those following along)
Worthy to note is that Bill did his due diligence in working out the surging issue he was experiencing by changing out the MAF's, messing with the rubber elbow into the MAF, screens, no screens, moving the screens,,,, etc.
At the end of the day, it would appear that the system ended up working as designed.
With that being said, I believe Bill uncovered a potential for "less than perfect" with the surging he experienced and this is something that will be addressed right away. The current design works, but it seems a little too close to the edge to ensure 100% every time so I will do something about it. For those that that want to know, I will design a diffuser for the air flow through the elbow to give it a more uniform flow pattern. Not super easy but not difficult either. Without question, it will cure the potential for this situation in the future.
Thank you again Bill for your dedication to this project and also for staying focused on the high road.
(For those following along)
Worthy to note is that Bill did his due diligence in working out the surging issue he was experiencing by changing out the MAF's, messing with the rubber elbow into the MAF, screens, no screens, moving the screens,,,, etc.
At the end of the day, it would appear that the system ended up working as designed.
With that being said, I believe Bill uncovered a potential for "less than perfect" with the surging he experienced and this is something that will be addressed right away. The current design works, but it seems a little too close to the edge to ensure 100% every time so I will do something about it. For those that that want to know, I will design a diffuser for the air flow through the elbow to give it a more uniform flow pattern. Not super easy but not difficult either. Without question, it will cure the potential for this situation in the future.
Thank you again Bill for your dedication to this project and also for staying focused on the high road.
05-27-2008, 03:35 PM
#126
IMO000,
Hate to even think of this but would an air diffuser like the Tornado work to delaminate the airflow coming off the rubber L? I know, it's just snake oil in most situations.
Dennis
Hate to even think of this but would an air diffuser like the Tornado work to delaminate the airflow coming off the rubber L? I know, it's just snake oil in most situations.
Dennis
05-27-2008, 03:55 PM
#127
Under the Lift
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A view of the complete tubing system. It was essential for the 90 degree elbow at the back of the engine to have a 3.5” dia. Anything less would create too much turbulence and the MAF would get erratic reading, making the engine run poorly. This 3.5” pipe is readily available at any big rig dealership. I bought mine at the local Mack Dealer. The left over piping from this elbow was used to fabricate the oil vapor recovery tank (catch can).
05-27-2008, 04:24 PM
#129
This could be a case of ebayitis. You receive an incomplete item and you are not satisfied. Instead of contacting the seller you give the seller a negative feedback. In turn, you get a negative feedback because you fail to contact them. The seller has tons of positive feedback and you only have a few. Who is hurt the most? Who's credibility is ruined? Not the seller with tons of positive feedback.
05-27-2008, 04:37 PM
#130
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Alright, Spent my whole lunch hour messing with this car and I cannot get it to surge.
When the car was stone cold and I was trying to place the rubber elbow the engine idle slowed but once I got the elbow on there it quickly recovered. I pulled the standard elbow off and the idle picked up a little and seemed a little happier but not significant. I placed the elbow with the diffuser and it seemed slightly better than the elbow without the diffuser. Hard to tell.
So bottom line: when the engine was cold I could create a slight audible difference in the idle with vs without the elbow. With the engine warm I cannot discern any difference with or without either elbow. I also tried it with the mandrel pipe plugged in to the elbow. I didn't drive the car. This car is not dragging a supercharger at idle either which might make a difference. I don't have time right now to install a supercharger to find out.
I think it is worth the effort to test the elbow with diffuser to see if it makes a difference on Konstantin's car. I am trying to attach the diffuser screen inside the elbow and I do not have the proper parts here to do it. Looks like I will be ditching work early today. Be on the lookout for a package tomorrow.
When the car was stone cold and I was trying to place the rubber elbow the engine idle slowed but once I got the elbow on there it quickly recovered. I pulled the standard elbow off and the idle picked up a little and seemed a little happier but not significant. I placed the elbow with the diffuser and it seemed slightly better than the elbow without the diffuser. Hard to tell.
So bottom line: when the engine was cold I could create a slight audible difference in the idle with vs without the elbow. With the engine warm I cannot discern any difference with or without either elbow. I also tried it with the mandrel pipe plugged in to the elbow. I didn't drive the car. This car is not dragging a supercharger at idle either which might make a difference. I don't have time right now to install a supercharger to find out.
I think it is worth the effort to test the elbow with diffuser to see if it makes a difference on Konstantin's car. I am trying to attach the diffuser screen inside the elbow and I do not have the proper parts here to do it. Looks like I will be ditching work early today. Be on the lookout for a package tomorrow.
05-27-2008, 06:37 PM
#131
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Whew, that was a long rant to say, 'im pissed becasue it took you solong to ship'
I only read your original post so I am shooting from the hip here but, **** happens, IMO you need a little more to worry about. You got the product, a little late but you got it. Have a coke and a smile and go install your SC and enjoy it.
I only read your original post so I am shooting from the hip here but, **** happens, IMO you need a little more to worry about. You got the product, a little late but you got it. Have a coke and a smile and go install your SC and enjoy it.
05-27-2008, 07:04 PM
#132
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Tim:
I saw a fair amount of surging this morning again when cold, so I guess the car is still a candidate for the diffuser test. THANKS.
I saw a fair amount of surging this morning again when cold, so I guess the car is still a candidate for the diffuser test. THANKS.
05-27-2008, 07:37 PM
#133
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hey guys, are you letting the car re-adapt when changing stuff around?
I found that to be really important when changing the smallest parameter on the intake / maf setup.
I found that to be really important when changing the smallest parameter on the intake / maf setup.
05-27-2008, 07:41 PM
#134
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JUst a quick note of my experiences - I've never experienced an idle problem with the supercharger, and I have never been careful about the orientation of the MAF, how far n the tube was etc. I've had it on and off maybe 10 times or so. YMMV.