There is a 928 for sale in the neighborhood. An '87 with 40k miles sign says S4 and rare. It's an automatic and it looks like it was repainted not too long ago (not a good paint job) black with saddle seats. The asking price is $13,500. How can you tell it is an S4? Is the S4 better or not than other 928s? Is this a desirable car? What should I look out for? Is the price right?

Thanks for your time,

Rich

 

try the search function

if its a repaint, and a crappy one at that, then i would be doubtful of the mileage. If your paying for a low mile car, then it had better be all original.

 

Hey Rich, if you can get some engine pictures and post them it would go a long to help with your question. But if the car has 40K on it it shouldnt have needed a repaint unless it was in an accident or very neglected. Pictures would help with this but if you cant do that make sure you take the car and get a PPI done before you plunk down any cash, there are other cars on here that are well sorted and with higher milage but a lot of the little things would be fixed and most would have original paint

 

First out of the block, look for the whale tail on the back like in Ryan's picture. Next, the rear tail lights should be flush with the bumper cover. If these are not there, it's not an S4. If you see these, it likely is. Don't get in a hurry. These cars never, ever sell fast at that kind of price. It'll most certainly go down several times in the next 2-3 months.

What to look for. 5 speed or auto, 5 speeds are somewhat rare. Electrical malfunctions. Every 928 has miles of wiring and usually several things that are FUBAR. Check everything yourself, use the owners manual if needed. The S4 has some advantages over the earlier cars, but the pre-1981 cars also are pretty neat. Ask for maint history and receipts. I don't trust the mileage at all, but anything is possible. I would want detailed records for the life of the car showing mileage data to believe it.

The 87 is a desirable car, because it has several nifty features. It may have a flip-up wing in back. It also has supposedly better rods with oil squirters in them(maybe). Condition, and maint is everything on these cars. If it has crappy paint, it almost certainly has been let go on routine maint, and will cost you a lot of money to put right. If you post your location, maybe a rennlist member could go with you and have a look-see for the obvious faults. One big deal breaker is called thrust bearing failure. The auto trans cars must be checked for this prior to purchase. There is remediation for this problem, but it must be caught in time, or the engine is trash. Investigate wisely.

Welcome to rennlist. The search function is your friend for the next few weeks. Enjoy the hunt!

 

Rich,

The best thing for you to do would be to disclose your location, and find a local 928 enthusiast to join you in looking at the car. Trust me, no one is going to buy an '87 S4 A/T out from under you at that asking price, even given the cars purported mileage. If your not comfortable doing that, then follow Mrmerlin's advice and post lots of pics.

 

Thanks for the great info! BTW, I'm in PA north east of Philly in Upper Bucks County, the car has been around for months. I didn't have a clue if this was a deal or not. I drive by it every day and it looked great, but today I stopped and got a close up look. Looks like new paint but it has fish-eyes and contaminant particles under the paint like it was a Maco special. Seems like every time I see a car that interests me it's way over priced. I don't think deals exist anymore.

 

S4 stand's for roughly, the fourth incarnation of the 928. All 928's from 1987 through 1991 are S4's except for a few exceptions called GT's.

It sounds like you are looking at a $5,000 S4. I base that on the fact that it has needed a repaint, and that repaint is bad.

 

... and that a 40k-mile S4 shouldn't need a repaint unless it's been in the sun since 1988 (as has been written above.)

The more-likely explanation is that 40k is when the odometer gear broke. Or, that 40k is what the odo was set to when the gear was replaced.

 

I think Earl Gilstrom is in that neighborhood IIRC. Good local resource with extensive knowledge of the 928, also does a lot of work on some of the cars if you don't have the time/skill/tools yet. Do a quick search on his name here, and/or you can send him a PM for local contact info.

To verify what you are looking at, go get the VIN out of the driver's windshield post and post it here. You can X out the last four digits if your are concerned about revealing too much, but there are a few features exclusive to early '87's that you might want to know about. The first cars came with a flip-up rear wing, and some also came with "squirter" blocks, with additional piston oiling. Both are desirable.

A paint job with dirt and fisheyes in it is usually indicative of somebody's do-it-at-home effort. It means poor prep and poor painting, and nothing short of a repaint will fix it unfortunately. When you start pricing those repaints, you'll likely find that your painting budget will quickly exceed $5k, especially if you consider the parts and pieces that need to be replaced after removal for painting. This is rubber and trim pieces. If you want a better job that mimics the original paint, costs can roll up higher in a hurry. Remember that this was a $60k car in 1987 dollars.

As others suggest, there are problems with odometer drive gears in pre-'89 cars. Replacement of the drive gear is a prime opportunity to 'correct' high indicated mileage. In these days of CarFax, one can easily and inexpensively look at a car's registration and smog inspection history and see if the current reading jives with previously recorded readings. You'll also see a pattern in the owner's repair history and service documentation, info the owner must be willing to share.

Assuming tha the car actually is as represented and you get over the paint issue, there are age-related mechanical things to consider. No matter what the age of the car, you'll want to bring all the maintenence up to current. An 'average' S4 will need basics like tires and brakes, fluids and filters. Easy so far... Timing belt and water pump every five years or 50k miles, give or take. The hoses and rubber bits under the hood, including all fuel lines and coolant hoses. The radiator will likely need attention. New battery. The AC will need attention, generally a reseal with new hoses and connection o-rings, plus a recharge. There will be some cosmetic issues under the hood to take care of while the intake is off for all those hoses. Still with me? Budget about $5k, plus labor time or $$, to take care of this stuff. This is the stuff that will make the car a reliable, safe driver.

I'm not trying to scare you off, just want to prepare you for what it takes to make the car nice enough to have in the garage, ready to drive.

Get in touch with Earl Gilstrom. Anybody else in that area that might stop and visit DrRichie and let him look at your car, plus lend an eyeball for a quick scrutiny of his find?

 

Yes, Captain Earl is the MAN.

And for looking for a nice 928 and pricing, do the usual homework. Start scouring Craigslist, cars.com, your local newspaper, for sale ads here, and get a feel for what is selling for what.

You might also consider reviewing this site, it has some good model year info that might help you narrow down your search: http://www.928s4vr.com/

Good luck and keep us posted. -Ed

 

Please read thru the New Visitor...FAQ topic posted at the top of this forum.

 

Find a Porsche shop in your area that has a **known 928 mechanic** and have a Pre Purchase Inspection (PPI) done on the car. You want a mechanic that has knowledge of the 928's and can find the problems on the car that will need to be fixed (that the current owner somehow forgets to mention).

A bad paint job is not a good sign, most 928 owners will spend a little more to get a better paint job on a car that has value to them. But, a bad paint job could also mean the owner got screwed by a crappy body shop, and the car is indeed well cared for otherwise.

Ask for maintenance records and do a PPI and Carfax.

There are a few nice 928's for sell here that would be nearly completely sorted and the condition would be fully disclosed.

Example: Ryan Perrella's '90 GT for $25k. Needs little or nothing and has some tasty upgrades (pic of which is on his avatar on the second post of this thread).

By the time you buy that S4 for $13.5k, repaint it and do all the things I bet it needs as well as upgrade the wheels (stock S4 wheels are boring), you will be all over $25k.

 

x3 on the recommendation for Capt. Earl Gilstrom. I believe his location is SW of Philly if I remember from last year when I got my wife's car from him. He services like 50 928s & I'm sure he'd do a ppi for you if you brought the car to him. Good Luck!
Capt Earl's site:
http://members.rennlist.com/captearlg/

 

Rich,

I will not add to the above EXCELLENT comments.

Give me a call if still interested. 610-358-1268

 

Not to take anything away from the great details above, OBVIOUSLY someone will suggest you check the VIN?

OK, it's in Dr. Bobs, you can tell at a glance the MY, no letter O, use zero and get a carfax, but from what you have said, I think I would save my $$ and pass w/o fax. 17 postitions, in the 10th position the letter indicates the year. "A" being 1980, H being '87. Now, who can tell him where on the engine the VIN better match with the one on dash and the one stamped into the fender panel?

Welcome.