Engine builders help needed, pics
03-22-2008, 05:59 PM
#76
Rennlist Member
03-22-2008, 10:13 PM
#77
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Sorry Mark, I hadn't noticed you asked a question. Actually I've been at the shop finishing up the motor. To resolve the cam alignment I went through the dial indicator procedure here, http://www.928oc.org/928oc_michigan/tbelt11.html , & everything lined up properly so I went on ahead with the build. Using Porken's 'needle' timing tool I timed the cams straight up, dead center. No advance or retard. I want the cams a degree or two retarded after the belt's initial stretch so I locked them in straight up. Now I just have to find a few small plugs (air pump holes in the heads, & one water jacket plug) which I know I have somewhere & I'm done. Here's a few pics.......
Hey Russ, I included a cam shot so you could see the lobe profile. Much more area there. I could shave with the stock cams they were so sharp!
Hammer
Hey Russ, I included a cam shot so you could see the lobe profile. Much more area there. I could shave with the stock cams they were so sharp!
Hammer
03-23-2008, 01:56 AM
#78
Nordschleife Master
Looks very nice! You're right about the difference on the lobes from stock.. I have my covers off at the moment.
I also like the black cam covers.. the finish looks a lot better than my black covers which I painted yesterday as an interim solution to last until I do a rebuild for boost. Are the raised letters the kit from Nicole? I've been thinking about it, even though cosmetic spending isn't in the budget just yet.
I also like the black cam covers.. the finish looks a lot better than my black covers which I painted yesterday as an interim solution to last until I do a rebuild for boost. Are the raised letters the kit from Nicole? I've been thinking about it, even though cosmetic spending isn't in the budget just yet.
03-23-2008, 10:47 AM
#79
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Looks very nice! You're right about the difference on the lobes from stock.. I have my covers off at the moment.
I also like the black cam covers.. the finish looks a lot better than my black covers which I painted yesterday as an interim solution to last until I do a rebuild for boost. Are the raised letters the kit from Nicole? I've been thinking about it, even though cosmetic spending isn't in the budget just yet.
I also like the black cam covers.. the finish looks a lot better than my black covers which I painted yesterday as an interim solution to last until I do a rebuild for boost. Are the raised letters the kit from Nicole? I've been thinking about it, even though cosmetic spending isn't in the budget just yet.
Hammer
03-23-2008, 12:15 PM
#81
Rennlist Member
Hammer,
I love that link. It was the information that made my first cam setting a breeze. even with my ad-hoc tools
.
BUT, the question was, did you rotate the cams when using the alignment tool with the cut outs, to make the alignment tool fit, and did you measure the distance between the cams when in the too? I ask this, because using the porken tool has nothing to do with the relative position of the exhaust cams. if they are off one tooth, you will have some problems as you know.
It was bothering me that it all didnt line up with the tools, and that you never posted a picture of the tool on the cams aligned properly. It certainly looked, to me anyway, that just a rotation of the cams would have alowed the cam lobs to fit properly, OR showed that you were a tooth off. PLus, the distance of the two marks would also need to be at 113mm apart while in the tool. there is no way a different cam lob set up will change anything. worst case, it will be real close when aligned properly.
Let me know what you did next, after those posts a while ago, to make sure the relative postition of the exhaust and intake cams.
Thats a mean lookiing engine. Looks great.
Let me know!
mk
I love that link. It was the information that made my first cam setting a breeze. even with my ad-hoc tools
.BUT, the question was, did you rotate the cams when using the alignment tool with the cut outs, to make the alignment tool fit, and did you measure the distance between the cams when in the too? I ask this, because using the porken tool has nothing to do with the relative position of the exhaust cams. if they are off one tooth, you will have some problems as you know.
It was bothering me that it all didnt line up with the tools, and that you never posted a picture of the tool on the cams aligned properly. It certainly looked, to me anyway, that just a rotation of the cams would have alowed the cam lobs to fit properly, OR showed that you were a tooth off. PLus, the distance of the two marks would also need to be at 113mm apart while in the tool. there is no way a different cam lob set up will change anything. worst case, it will be real close when aligned properly.
Let me know what you did next, after those posts a while ago, to make sure the relative postition of the exhaust and intake cams.
Thats a mean lookiing engine. Looks great.
Let me know!
mk
Sorry Mark, I hadn't noticed you asked a question. Actually I've been at the shop finishing up the motor. To resolve the cam alignment I went through the dial indicator procedure here, http://www.928oc.org/928oc_michigan/tbelt11.html , & everything lined up properly so I went on ahead with the build. Using Porken's 'needle' timing tool I timed the cams straight up, dead center. No advance or retard. I want the cams a degree or two retarded after the belt's initial stretch so I locked them in straight up. Now I just have to find a few small plugs (air pump holes in the heads, & one water jacket plug) which I know I have somewhere & I'm done. Here's a few pics.......
Hey Russ, I included a cam shot so you could see the lobe profile. Much more area there. I could shave with the stock cams they were so sharp!
Hammer
Hey Russ, I included a cam shot so you could see the lobe profile. Much more area there. I could shave with the stock cams they were so sharp!
Hammer
03-23-2008, 01:30 PM
#82
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
The cam notches are 113mm apart in the picture where they won't fit into the template. They are not 1 tooth off. In the dial indicator procedure you have to check both intake & exhaust in relation to the crank & both cams were within specs. What more is there? Actually when I degreed them in they checked out very similar in timing to some domestic cams I have installed in the past. I'm satisfied.
Hammer
Hammer
03-23-2008, 01:39 PM
#83
Rennlist Member
well, if the 113mm was the distance, then you are probably ok. however, i think if you rotated the cams the cam tool would have fit. (still retaining near the 113mm). It looked like you were measuring at some set crank position , which is not how the cams are to be set up. You have to rotate them (via the crank) to fit into the tool. if they cant fit, then they would be off a tooth or so.
did you use the dial indicator to measure the exhaust lifter movement at 1mm lift? I think it was something like a couple of degrees before TDC before the exhaust closes.
I thought the dial indicator method was only checking the intake cam, as the exhaust is along for the ride.
mk
did you use the dial indicator to measure the exhaust lifter movement at 1mm lift? I think it was something like a couple of degrees before TDC before the exhaust closes.
I thought the dial indicator method was only checking the intake cam, as the exhaust is along for the ride.
mk
The cam notches are 113mm apart in the picture where they won't fit into the template. They are not 1 tooth off. In the dial indicator procedure you have to check both intake & exhaust in relation to the crank & both cams were within specs. What more is there? Actually when I degreed them in they checked out very similar in timing to some domestic cams I have installed in the past. I'm satisfied.
Hammer
Hammer
03-23-2008, 01:59 PM
#84
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I'll go with Adam's suggestion then. That gage is only needed to set "basic timing" of the cams. You'll get them in the correct position when you do the precision valve timing. You'll only know if you have a real issue if you can't get them timed properly within the range limits of the cam gears' adjustment slots.
Hammer
03-23-2008, 06:42 PM
#85
Rennlist Member
What am i missing when all of this only points to the intake cams. the exhaust are only along for the ride. they can be set anywhere, and even by the fine tuning adustment, you would never know.
If i am missing something, how do you check the exhaust cams for timing. The only way i know of is the 113mm when the cams have the arrows pointing up, along with the cam setting tool.
mk
If i am missing something, how do you check the exhaust cams for timing. The only way i know of is the 113mm when the cams have the arrows pointing up, along with the cam setting tool.
mk