Installing new Hatch lock parts, Need help getting them to work
02-19-2008, 08:56 PM
#1
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Installing new Hatch lock parts, Need help getting them to work
Well I got a few parts today to restore the rear hatch locking mechanism. I had the rear electric release working for awhile but at some point shortly after i bought the car the interior light would stay on as if the door was open. I soon found it to be the rear hatch so i disconnected a simple 2 wire connection and the lights staying on was no longer an issue, but i could no longer electronically release the hatch. So I lived with doing it with the key forever.
Now a few months back I noticed the male part of my hatch lock had cracked on both sides of what would be "the male part" and I contributed this to my squeaky hatch. Seemed quite obvious. Well now the car is back together, minus the front bumper cover and now I have the parts to fix all this. Which leads me to my question.
How do i replace the actual lock switch from my old upper latch part which is keyed with my ignition and doors to the new part which has its own new red key which dosent fit anything? Has anyone done this before?
Any other pointers i should know about before starting this?
Also I had ordered what was described as a gasket in the PET for the lower portion of the hatch and figured it would be rubber or something. But I have it and its a stamped steel piece and is labeled as 2mm thick and seems to be a shim. I haven't taken the old stuff out so i cant comment on wether or not this is already on my car, but i remember one of the solutions to the electronic latch not opening was to make up some shims, perhaps this was the factories solution or perhaps its been there all along. Either way i was somewhat surprised by it and thought i would mention it.
PS: Porsche seems to be using red baggies now
Now a few months back I noticed the male part of my hatch lock had cracked on both sides of what would be "the male part" and I contributed this to my squeaky hatch. Seemed quite obvious. Well now the car is back together, minus the front bumper cover and now I have the parts to fix all this. Which leads me to my question.
How do i replace the actual lock switch from my old upper latch part which is keyed with my ignition and doors to the new part which has its own new red key which dosent fit anything? Has anyone done this before?
Any other pointers i should know about before starting this?
Also I had ordered what was described as a gasket in the PET for the lower portion of the hatch and figured it would be rubber or something. But I have it and its a stamped steel piece and is labeled as 2mm thick and seems to be a shim. I haven't taken the old stuff out so i cant comment on wether or not this is already on my car, but i remember one of the solutions to the electronic latch not opening was to make up some shims, perhaps this was the factories solution or perhaps its been there all along. Either way i was somewhat surprised by it and thought i would mention it.
PS: Porsche seems to be using red baggies now
Last edited by RyanPerrella; 02-20-2008 at 08:20 PM.
02-19-2008, 09:12 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
Now a few months back I noticed the male part of my hatch lock had cracked on both sides of what would be "the male part" and I contributed this to my squeaky hatch. Seemed quite obvious. Well now the car is back together, minus the front bumper cover and now I have the parts to fix all this. Which leads me to my question.
How do i replace the actual lock switch from my old upper latch part which is keyed with my ignition and doors to the new part which has its own new red key which dosent fit anything? Has anyone done this before?
Any other pointers i should know about before starting this?
How do i replace the actual lock switch from my old upper latch part which is keyed with my ignition and doors to the new part which has its own new red key which dosent fit anything? Has anyone done this before?
Any other pointers i should know about before starting this?
02-19-2008, 09:17 PM
#3
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
ahhh non alarm huh
Well that sucks because i kinda like my alarm. But i did notice a difference in price of about $125. This this only cost $107. I will contact Jim about this.
Well that sucks because i kinda like my alarm. But i did notice a difference in price of about $125. This this only cost $107. I will contact Jim about this.
02-19-2008, 09:28 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
from the pic, you got a non-alarm also. The alarm part has thinner walls at the latch point, which is why they crack so easliy. Jim B said they almost never get a good used alarm mechanism because of this. I'm glad not to have the alarm....
02-19-2008, 09:33 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
no, I thought about that, but the housings are different sizes altogether....plus those walls are to thick at the plastic latch part for the alarm type...
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02-19-2008, 11:27 PM
#8
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Ive got the non alarm and the alarm version (from the car) next to one another and the housings are different. The alarm housing has a larger box on the lock cylinder side presumably to fit whatever electronics are inside. There are a pair of philips screws that i will remove so i can see whats inside.
I had thought about welding the thing up but I think I'll just spring for the new lock. I think its another $100 but i will find out for sure tomorrow. I imagine it will take awhile to get though because it should be keyed for my car.
I had thought about welding the thing up but I think I'll just spring for the new lock. I think its another $100 but i will find out for sure tomorrow. I imagine it will take awhile to get though because it should be keyed for my car.
02-19-2008, 11:29 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
Good luck....there are a few excellent write ups for repairing, but none fix the cracked housing!
02-19-2008, 11:53 PM
#10
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Yeah i have the lock cylinder out and have the bare housing and the plastic tongue thing.
Not only is one side of the housings flaps or tabs that are use to mount it completely in two. But the main part has a crack in it fron one end to the other. Even if i welded the flap back together i would need to weld this substantial crack up to get any rigidity back into the thing.
I will call tomorrow and see what the entire thing costs and also ask if there is in fact a part number for the housing itself. In all honesty my lock cylinder is pretty dirty and it dosent move as freely as i would like, so the whole thing really should be replaced.
The things you do to get a properly functioning hatch !
Not only is one side of the housings flaps or tabs that are use to mount it completely in two. But the main part has a crack in it fron one end to the other. Even if i welded the flap back together i would need to weld this substantial crack up to get any rigidity back into the thing.
I will call tomorrow and see what the entire thing costs and also ask if there is in fact a part number for the housing itself. In all honesty my lock cylinder is pretty dirty and it dosent move as freely as i would like, so the whole thing really should be replaced.
The things you do to get a properly functioning hatch !
02-20-2008, 07:12 AM
#11
Ryan,
Your post #1 you mentions a 2mm shim that looks as though it goes under the lower hatch locking mounting mechanism.
From my fabrication of a new nylon insert, described in one of my recent posts, the back section of the rubber insert is tapered, thicker towards the bottom whereas the side and forward sections are parallel sections. This aft or back section has the three ribs molded into it.
I tend to think that this shim could be a Porsche fix for when the rubber insert wears and the electric release mechanism will not release the hatch, even when the motor mounting is moved to it maximum travel to give the maximum release arc to the releasing cam. Some of the fixes as described are to insert nylon shims behind the aft section of the rubber insert (good fix) and also to put a couple of nylon ties around the electrical motor operated release cam (another good fix), however when the rubber insert finally falls to pieces then you either buy a new lower section or fabricate up a nylon insert. If your time is money then the buy option is the one, however, if your time is free then if you have the aptitude then maybe the fabrication fix is the go.
If this 2mm shim is mounted under the flange of the lower receiver it will lift the female rubber section higher onto the male tongue and, as the aft section the rubber insert is thicker at the bottom, this will put force in the forward direction onto the upper tongue, bring the hatch release nylon latch further under the influence of the arc of the electric motor release cam, mindful that there is clearance between the two flanges and the alignment of the hatch edges to the body can be maintained.
It is imperative that forward force is only applied to the upper tongue by the rubber insert aft section, so as to ensure that the thin side section are kept under compressive stress otherwise they will crack if place under cyclic tension stress (if the tounge is move too far forward so that it hits the forward rubber section of the insert before supported by the aft section of the rubber insert the thin side section of the tongue will be placed under tension). in view of this I don't support the fix of putting shims under the aft section of the flange of the hatch mechanism to bring the release latch more under the influence of the release cam.
After you have shimmed out back of the rubber insert, I would suggest that the lower receiver is pushed by hand onto the upper tongue when secure in positon on the hatch to ensure that the upper and lower hatch actually mate and latch in position. I would also check this out with new hatch locks.
Various method have been described on how to align both the upper and lower sections of the lock and release mechanism. I have found that if the four allen headed set bolts of the upper and lower sections of the locking mechanism are just lightly nipped up and the hatch closed they will self align, so that when the hatch is opened by the key after this alignment procedure there will be enough friction to keep them in their alligned position until they are tightened up. By doing the alignment by this method it will ensure that the insert only use forward force on the upper tongue.
You will note that the upper and lower flange set screws, screw into self alignable movable plates which facilitates this alignment procedure.
Hope this helps.
Tails 1990 928 S4 Auto
Your post #1 you mentions a 2mm shim that looks as though it goes under the lower hatch locking mounting mechanism.
From my fabrication of a new nylon insert, described in one of my recent posts, the back section of the rubber insert is tapered, thicker towards the bottom whereas the side and forward sections are parallel sections. This aft or back section has the three ribs molded into it.
I tend to think that this shim could be a Porsche fix for when the rubber insert wears and the electric release mechanism will not release the hatch, even when the motor mounting is moved to it maximum travel to give the maximum release arc to the releasing cam. Some of the fixes as described are to insert nylon shims behind the aft section of the rubber insert (good fix) and also to put a couple of nylon ties around the electrical motor operated release cam (another good fix), however when the rubber insert finally falls to pieces then you either buy a new lower section or fabricate up a nylon insert. If your time is money then the buy option is the one, however, if your time is free then if you have the aptitude then maybe the fabrication fix is the go.
If this 2mm shim is mounted under the flange of the lower receiver it will lift the female rubber section higher onto the male tongue and, as the aft section the rubber insert is thicker at the bottom, this will put force in the forward direction onto the upper tongue, bring the hatch release nylon latch further under the influence of the arc of the electric motor release cam, mindful that there is clearance between the two flanges and the alignment of the hatch edges to the body can be maintained.
It is imperative that forward force is only applied to the upper tongue by the rubber insert aft section, so as to ensure that the thin side section are kept under compressive stress otherwise they will crack if place under cyclic tension stress (if the tounge is move too far forward so that it hits the forward rubber section of the insert before supported by the aft section of the rubber insert the thin side section of the tongue will be placed under tension). in view of this I don't support the fix of putting shims under the aft section of the flange of the hatch mechanism to bring the release latch more under the influence of the release cam.
After you have shimmed out back of the rubber insert, I would suggest that the lower receiver is pushed by hand onto the upper tongue when secure in positon on the hatch to ensure that the upper and lower hatch actually mate and latch in position. I would also check this out with new hatch locks.
Various method have been described on how to align both the upper and lower sections of the lock and release mechanism. I have found that if the four allen headed set bolts of the upper and lower sections of the locking mechanism are just lightly nipped up and the hatch closed they will self align, so that when the hatch is opened by the key after this alignment procedure there will be enough friction to keep them in their alligned position until they are tightened up. By doing the alignment by this method it will ensure that the insert only use forward force on the upper tongue.
You will note that the upper and lower flange set screws, screw into self alignable movable plates which facilitates this alignment procedure.
Hope this helps.
Tails 1990 928 S4 Auto
02-20-2008, 07:42 PM
#12
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Allright Update
Ive decided to go with the non alarm upper latch part because the alarm version is 3x more. Ive decided against trying to weld the aluminum/mag housing back up for fear that it will just crack again and not be much of a solution at all.
So that leaves me here. The lower female part is new and installed after drilling out the lower hole and freeing up the plunger as per Rogers thread and suggestions. Now ive installed the upper and expect it to close and open with the new secondary key.
Well it closes but only after slamming the lid down. The only way to open the lock is with the key, the electronic release is not working and this could be because of a couple of reasons.
1) I noticed that when i hit the release that the motor turns only as long as the switch is pulled. I remember that when i used to hit this switch it would cycle for 3-4 seconds at which point it usually pops the latch.
2) when i do hold the switch to let it cycle it fails to release the tab and the hatch remains closed. So the only way to open is with the key using the upper latch to open the lock. Both methods should work
3) As mentioned there is allot of force that must be added when closing the hatch to get it to catch and seal.
Ideas are much appreciated
Ive heard of the shims and used that idea before, but i was hoping i wouldnt have to do any of this stuff with all new parts. So why did i replace all this stuff if the new ones dont solve this F-ing stupid hatch system.
Also why the hell does the hatch have 2 separate methods of releasing 1 for the electronic and one with the key. Should this be just one system with 2 ways to operate it instead of this crap where each method of hatch release has a separate means of mechanically opening? WTF Porsche!
Ive decided to go with the non alarm upper latch part because the alarm version is 3x more. Ive decided against trying to weld the aluminum/mag housing back up for fear that it will just crack again and not be much of a solution at all.
So that leaves me here. The lower female part is new and installed after drilling out the lower hole and freeing up the plunger as per Rogers thread and suggestions. Now ive installed the upper and expect it to close and open with the new secondary key.
Well it closes but only after slamming the lid down. The only way to open the lock is with the key, the electronic release is not working and this could be because of a couple of reasons.
1) I noticed that when i hit the release that the motor turns only as long as the switch is pulled. I remember that when i used to hit this switch it would cycle for 3-4 seconds at which point it usually pops the latch.
2) when i do hold the switch to let it cycle it fails to release the tab and the hatch remains closed. So the only way to open is with the key using the upper latch to open the lock. Both methods should work
3) As mentioned there is allot of force that must be added when closing the hatch to get it to catch and seal.
Ideas are much appreciated
Ive heard of the shims and used that idea before, but i was hoping i wouldnt have to do any of this stuff with all new parts. So why did i replace all this stuff if the new ones dont solve this F-ing stupid hatch system.
Also why the hell does the hatch have 2 separate methods of releasing 1 for the electronic and one with the key. Should this be just one system with 2 ways to operate it instead of this crap where each method of hatch release has a separate means of mechanically opening? WTF Porsche!
02-20-2008, 09:01 PM
#13
Racer
Join Date: Dec 2007
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ryan, i am in the same dammed boat my friend. a long time member said that he believed that the rear hatch and it's workings were the most technical or complicated system on the 928 (to paraphrase)..
i'll be messing with it some more this weekend because i cannot stand "rigged" crap and i like all options to work. good luck killer and hope you get it whipped in fast order.
i'll be messing with it some more this weekend because i cannot stand "rigged" crap and i like all options to work. good luck killer and hope you get it whipped in fast order.
02-20-2008, 09:51 PM
#14
Under the Lift
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Allright Update
Ive decided to go with the non alarm upper latch part because the alarm version is 3x more. Ive decided against trying to weld the aluminum/mag housing back up for fear that it will just crack again and not be much of a solution at all.
So that leaves me here. The lower female part is new and installed after drilling out the lower hole and freeing up the plunger as per Rogers thread and suggestions. Now ive installed the upper and expect it to close and open with the new secondary key.
Well it closes but only after slamming the lid down. The only way to open the lock is with the key, the electronic release is not working and this could be because of a couple of reasons.
1) I noticed that when i hit the release that the motor turns only as long as the switch is pulled. I remember that when i used to hit this switch it would cycle for 3-4 seconds at which point it usually pops the latch.
2) when i do hold the switch to let it cycle it fails to release the tab and the hatch remains closed. So the only way to open is with the key using the upper latch to open the lock. Both methods should work
3) As mentioned there is allot of force that must be added when closing the hatch to get it to catch and seal.
Ideas are much appreciated
Ive heard of the shims and used that idea before, but i was hoping i wouldnt have to do any of this stuff with all new parts. So why did i replace all this stuff if the new ones dont solve this F-ing stupid hatch system.
Also why the hell does the hatch have 2 separate methods of releasing 1 for the electronic and one with the key. Should this be just one system with 2 ways to operate it instead of this crap where each method of hatch release has a separate means of mechanically opening? WTF Porsche!
Ive decided to go with the non alarm upper latch part because the alarm version is 3x more. Ive decided against trying to weld the aluminum/mag housing back up for fear that it will just crack again and not be much of a solution at all.
So that leaves me here. The lower female part is new and installed after drilling out the lower hole and freeing up the plunger as per Rogers thread and suggestions. Now ive installed the upper and expect it to close and open with the new secondary key.
Well it closes but only after slamming the lid down. The only way to open the lock is with the key, the electronic release is not working and this could be because of a couple of reasons.
1) I noticed that when i hit the release that the motor turns only as long as the switch is pulled. I remember that when i used to hit this switch it would cycle for 3-4 seconds at which point it usually pops the latch.
2) when i do hold the switch to let it cycle it fails to release the tab and the hatch remains closed. So the only way to open is with the key using the upper latch to open the lock. Both methods should work
3) As mentioned there is allot of force that must be added when closing the hatch to get it to catch and seal.
Ideas are much appreciated
Ive heard of the shims and used that idea before, but i was hoping i wouldnt have to do any of this stuff with all new parts. So why did i replace all this stuff if the new ones dont solve this F-ing stupid hatch system.
Also why the hell does the hatch have 2 separate methods of releasing 1 for the electronic and one with the key. Should this be just one system with 2 ways to operate it instead of this crap where each method of hatch release has a separate means of mechanically opening? WTF Porsche!
Read Alan's "how it works" post.
https://rennlist.com/forums/showpost...01&postcount=6
#1 indicates the 1 amp fuse for the hatch motor is blown.
#2 indicates an alignment/height issue, if the lower and upper are new. #3 may be related or could be the cam in the receiver is not cycling far enough due to maladjustment of the receiver motor.
Make sure the rubber bumpers are not too high. With new parts, they should be screwed way in. Also, on Nicole's 91 we removed a thick shim plate that was under the lower receiver that was holding it up very high. We did this because it caused the whole hatch to sit too high when closed, so it sat above the level of the quarter panel lines. It should line up. Well, Nicole's rubber bumpers were REAL tall. In fact, the bumpers were longer than on my 89 when we removed and compared them, and they were not threaded to screw in as far. Very weird. We had to cut more "threads" in them and chop off the top so they would screw into the hatch enough to achieve the right level. Why her hatch was so ridiculously elevated I do not know.
02-20-2008, 10:06 PM
#15
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Great OBVIOUS info Bill.
Often times i just get pissed and dont think
As for the fuse, i knew i had the same problem before but forgot what fixed it but i do remember it was minor. I will replace the fuse
I will also adjust the rubber stops and try again
Often times i just get pissed and dont think
As for the fuse, i knew i had the same problem before but forgot what fixed it but i do remember it was minor. I will replace the fuse
I will also adjust the rubber stops and try again