The P-9 Motorsports guys headed down to the dyno once again, this time their Remote Mount Turbo test mule was armed with methanol injection.

My understanding is that they believe that they have reached the limit of this particular turbo size, and are going to have to go larger. The turbo produced 11psi at its peak, but right at around 5200rpm it started losing pressure and reduced to 8 psi. I wasn't there for the runs, so I've got no details. I'm sure JT will pipe up here shortly and fill in the details.

475.6hp/526 ft lbs

 

Nice number. Do you happen to know the corection factor? Is there a data file that goes with it? It would be interesting to see the boost along with the graph. Also, how did the AFR work out?

 

This one was built for boost to provide some safety headroom over stock for development purposes on the RMT, and of course, ultimately for more performance.
They did have their stocker there as well (running 5 psi), but didn't take it above 4K rpm since it was pulling lean . I think it topped out at 330hp at 4K rpm. They were there to dynotune the testmule, and didn't have time to come back to shark tune the stocker ('88S4).
They were able to get the fuel side dynotuned on the test mule, which I think they said was good for about a 50hp gain, but didn't but didn't do the timing side due to the pressure drop issue.

Also, I forgot to mention, the testmule is an A/T!

 

Hey Andrew,

I talked to Chuck Ahrens, who owns the '88S4 running 5psi, to see if the dyno operator could email the data file. It would be nice to get all of that info. Maybe we just need to have those guys either hop on a dyno jet or head down to Louie's.

Sorry that I don't have more info, I'm sure they'll post it once they see that I've started this thread.

 

Good job!

 

Hey guys,

Here's some information to some of the questions posed.....

Adam and crew rebuilt this 110,000 mile engine...we knew we wanted to work toward 12#'s boost under some safety and so we added some stronger internals, with Ross pistons, rod's, cometic head gasket, 30# injectors and coating the engine, SuperMaf, boost controller, 9:1 CR and oh, the methanol kit most recently...but the top and lower end is stock....

We have been doing much of our dyno work with Brian Macey at Horsepower Connection at

http://horsepowerconnection.com/DynoTesting.htm

...his dyno is a "dyno dynamics" and is generally a little more conservative on its numbers over a dyno-jet. We've done both and I don't know if the difference we've seen on the two machines is as much as 15%, but 7-10%, depending on the day/operator, is reasonable.

Brian has a wonderful street legal Turbo 1,175 hp Chev......check that out on his site.

Here is what we are seeing so far.....

Note the Turbo Horsepower peak hits a lot earlier in the rpm range and runs longer to peak- good

The lag between 1,000 rpm and 2,800 (full spool) is minimal - good

Torque vs HP numbers - really good (especially for an Automatic)

What the Shark Tuner is telling us:

30# injectors are hitting the top end of the duty cycle at 4,900 rpm or so (mid 90's) and are a limiting/contributing factor on the top end....AFR however was running at 11.3+/- from our target of 12.5 so it appears we still have room for improvement...

38# injectors

larger exhaust housing on the turbo for top end

Potentially a slightly larger Turbo....the one we have is rated to 600hp

......and we still have some tuning on the timing side to finalize.

On Chucks car, we did a truly stock set-up....with 19# injectors....lean. We swapped out with 24#'s, and didn't see improvement in the range that we wanted based on the AFR data off the dyno. (This car is not set up for tuning with the Shark Tuner and a wideband O2 sensor). It will likely need to see 30# injectors for the base set-up, because someone will want to dial up the boost to 7# out on the track).

We did compare the AFR reading on the dyno to the Shark Tuner and found them to be close enough to be reliable.

last comment,

Based on the data logging and numbers from both the original (stock) engine on the red car and the set-up on Chucks at 5.5Lbs....bolting on a kit without tuning support is really limiting, both in performance as well as protection to the engine over time......I think that this is true of any FA induction approach. I would be curious to hear what the SC guys have experienced between the bolt up kits and enhancements with the ST.

We started this without John Speake's tuner, but it has been a real boon for information as we have worked through various iterations and gives some serious confidence to outputs.

JT
89 928 RMT/Methanol inj
Guards Red

 

I too found the 30# injectors were not enough for me too. With the 42# injectors I think I'm at about 75% injector duty cycle with stock fuel pressure.

How was our AFR?

Fun stuff isn't it!?

 

Hey Andrew,

AFR was in the mid to high 11's from start to about 4200 with IDC in the 50-60's and then bumped into the target range 12.2-12.4. Through 4600 it then drifted back down to the low 11's to finish out at 5,900 with the IDC in the mid 80's to 100%....

I think I have heard about idle issues with the monster injectors you are using but don't know the history with or without supermaf's, ST's etc....is this so? Otherwise, can you give me the model numbers and source on them.....

JT

 

John-

Sounds like once you hit the "double pulse" mode at 4600 RPM (IIRC) your AFR cam back down. You should be able to adjust when you enter this mode via the sharktuner and smooth things out a bit. It might help you a little, but it looks like you're going to need the bigger injectors.

Using the shark tuner allows you to use the 42# injectors without any idle issues. I think there were idle issue before the advent of the SharkTuner.

I'll look up the number of the "green giant" injectors for you and post back here later.

 

Excellent numbers!! Any updated pics of the install?

I recently attended one of Ben Strader's tuning classes. As a day job our instructor travels the country tuning cars (his preferred system is Autronic).
He said on average expect the dynapack dyno to be aroud 11% - 12% lower than a dynojet. He said the same is true for other dyno's such as SuperFlow, DynoCom, dyno dynamics etc... brand dynos.

Most of these have the correction software built in so you can simply click “dynojet correction factor” to produce a graph. On the dynocom dyno (like Louie has) you have to make a software change inside the registry to open this up and allow the dynojet numbers to be shown.

So based on this, you are in the 530-540rwhp range on a dynojet.
No doubt the Shark Tuner is the way to go, we had good success with the “bolt on” approach using the Vortech FMU to ramp up fuel pressure under boost. I don’t see why this wouldn’t work with a turbo. Have you thought about trying an FMU? They are not expensive (under $100 for the unit and a few adjustment discs).

My 81 is still using the stock injectors at 17psi. My fuel pressure is upwards of 130psi under full boost. I realize this is not ideal, but with no way to shark tune the L-Jet system, I’ll take what I can get. My long term goal is a third party engine management system like Todd is using on his car (Autronic).

Keep up the good work,you guys are on the home stretch!!!!

 

Thanks Enzo,

I forgot a couple of other things.....I do have rising rate FPR on the car too, it basically maintains 58lbs fuel up to 62 under load....

Another important item with this set-up is that it has no intercooler.....the length of the piping underneath to provide cooling.....when we were on the dyno, (with a fan) our boost pipe temp just ahead of the MAF was about 80 degrees or a little less......we are very happy with that.

JT
89 928 RMT/Meth
Guards Red

 

Wow. Nice numbers guys. Will be fun to see how further tweaks turn out. Keep up the good work. -Ed

 

There is a big problem with 42# injectors as with a stock LH you can't get a reliable idle. You have to turn down the fuel pressure so low to get an idle that you run into problems off idle and higher up.

This was one of the original design goals for the SharkTuner. After SharkTuning you can run 42# at their rated fuel pressure at idle, and all the way up.....

I would recomend 42# for your project John !

 

No doubt.

 

The 42# injectors you'll need are from Ford Racing. You need M-9593-F302. THey have the green top - thus are refered to as "Green Giant" injectors.