Jeff McVicar

On the '83 s model What is the red explanation point light/ button for above the stereo??

Joe '87 S4

If it's the same as the later models (mine's an '87), it's a warning light that illuminates if one of the dash warning lights illuminate. If it's a non-critical warning, you can press that button to turn off the warning light. It'll come on again after a restart.

Jeff McVicar

Awwww man Thanks alot, There is a light on in the instrument panel (oxygen sensor light?) I was reading about that somewhere but I got cut off and had to go somewhere and forgot where i found it hahahaha. I'm sure I'll be doing that a lot. Thanks again Joe.

Thom1

Hi Jeff,

Welcome to the club. I hope they don't arrest you for stealing that car... just joking. We all should be that lucky.

If you can't find the owner's manual, get one from one of the Big 3. It has more information than most any that I have read. Seems it is $20-30, and worth every penny.
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Jeff McVicar

Looks like you have a lot of cool stuff man. What are the big three??....You like bikes??

Joe '87 S4

You're welcome. I've learned A LOT about this car and cars in general since it adopted me. Take Thom's advice and get the owner's manual. There is a lot of info in there.

Thom1

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the compliment on the cars. They are fun. I only own 10 and 12 speed bikes.

I keep updating this document to help out people with timing belt concerns. I would make sure you have a good belt with proper tension right away. Failure can cost $5-8k. If you ever get a belt tension warning light, stop immediately. Maybe you can limp at low RPMs to a garage.

Anyhow, contact information for the big three, and other useful information is in the document.

Thom’s Timing Belt and Water Pump Replacement Essentials:

Notes:
1. Procedures, parts, etc. are specified for a 1986.5 model, but relate well to other models.
2. Prices are for years 2001-2.
3. If possible, clean the engine first, without losing any original factory stickers. However, I would not drive the car to the carwash after receiving a belt tension warning.
4. Replace the timing belt and water pump, plus rebuild the tensioner every 60,000 miles and/or 5 years.

Removal:
Unless there is a note to loosen it, remove everything from the front of the engine including, but not limited to:
1. Upper and Lower Fan Shrouds/Cowlings
2. Fan - the pulley and clutch driven one
3. Fan and Throttle Linkage Console/Carrier
4. Hoses
5. Accessory Belts (Loosen or remove the accessories to remove belts.)
6. Power Steering Pump and Alternator Console – remove bolts
7. Power Steering Pump - loosen
8. A/C Compressor – loosen
9. Smog Pump - loosen
10. Distributors (may not need to remove, can come off with front timing belt covers)
11. Front Timing Belt Covers (Distributors are attached to front)
12. Crankshaft Pulleys
13. Front Main Timing Belt Cover
14. Tensioner – rebuild it, keep washers in the original orientation
15. Carrier for Idler and Roller
16. Rollers and Idler
17. Water Pump

Water Pump Bolts:
Make a cardboard outline of the water pump. Upon removal, put bolts into corresponding cardboard holes. Bolts vary in length, and can easily be installed in the wrong holes. You can easily break off water pump bolts. If one of the pump bolts doesn't loosen easily, give the bolt head a firm blow with a punch to loosen it. Use PB’laster or penetrating oil on all bolts

Special Tools:
1. Buy the aftermarket (Jay Kempf) Belt Tension Tool for around $60, and the Flywheel Lock Tool for around $20.
2. Socket for front main pulley - 27mm or 1 1/16”
3. 2” extension for pulley socket
4. Metric Allen Wrenches with 3/8” socket wrench drive fit
5. Breaker Bar and Cheater Pipe for crankshaft pulley bolt socket (not really special tools)
6. Seal Puller – T shaped lever type will do front crankshaft seal
7. Special seal puller is needed for the oil pump seal. Perhaps one that works like a dent puller
8. Pulley Puller
9. Snap Ring/Circlip Pliers

Tool, Part, & Manual Suppliers:
928 Specialists at 828-766-9280, Devek, and 928 International 800-634-6117. Those “big 3” can hook you up with about anything for the 928. Tweeks, Pelican, Automotion, Performance, etc. can also help with your needs. See the Rennlist site for contact information. The other tools are available from Sears, and most auto parts stores. See ebay for PET 5 parts CD, and deals on parts. Harbor Freight has dial indicators (gauges required for setting timing on some models), and all kinds of tools. See the website at: <a href="http://www.harborfreight.com." target="_blank">www.harborfreight.com.</a>

Online Support:
Join the Rennlist 928 Web Board. The web interface is the most effective that I have used. The email groups give an additional audience, but less sophisticated interface. See: <a href="http://www.rennlist.org/" target="_blank">http://www.rennlist.org/</a>
Also see the 928 message board at: <a href="http://members3.boardhost.com/928s4vr/" target="_blank">http://members3.boardhost.com/928s4vr/</a>

New Parts & Supplies:
Note: I heartily recommend that you or your mechanic replace everything on this list while you are in there. Rollers and idler have bearings that will become fouled by anti-freeze or mileage.
1. Water Pump – Porsche rebuilt will do, not necessarily new
2. Water Pump Gasket
3. Timing Belt
4. Rollers (2 Rollers and 1 Idler)
5. Aluminum Safe Antifreeze – phosphate and silicate free
6. Distilled water (to be used with antifreeze)
7. Timing Belt Idler Carrier Bushings (2)
8. Radiator Drain Plug
9. Engine Block Drain Plug Seal Washers – metal (2)
Tensioner needs:
1. O-ring
2. Gasket
3. Boot
4. Boot Clamp
5. Mobil 1 synthetic 75w90 weight gear oil

Optional Parts & Supplies:
1. Front Seals: Main, Oil Pump (requires o-ring and seal)
2. Clutch Fan (the pulley driven one) Bearings
3. Silicon Fan Clutch Fluid – from Toyota – use thickest - part number is 08816-10001
4. Thermostat
5. Thermostat Sealing Ring
6. Radiator Hoses (2)
7. Accessory Belts
8. Oil Dipstick O-ring
9. Front Camshaft Intake Seals (CAUTION: Removal of camshaft sprockets on 32 valve engines to access exhaust camshaft/outer seals changes timing. New timing requires extensive procedures and special tools.)
10. High Temperature Gasket Sealer
11. PB’laster Penetrating Oil
12. Oil Drain Plug Sealing Ring 22 X 27mm? (Plugs are 19mm or 21mm.)
13. Oil Filter
14. Engine Oil

Timing Belt Tension Check:
You will need a belt tension tool to check tension after approximately 1,500 miles and 10-15k mile intervals afterwards. Remove the passenger side timing belt cover. Check the belt tension. Also check the tensioner fluid level with each belt tension adjustment. Timing belt and/or water pump failure is common after 60k miles on the 928. Replace the timing belt and water pump, plus rebuild the tensioner every 60,000 miles and/or 5 years. Take belt tension very seriously. That is the Achilles heel.

Useful Manuals:
The Parts and Technical Reference Catalog is a great source of diagrams, part numbers, etc. However, there is a PET CD available on ebay for about $15 that contains more diagrams and data. The version 5 seems to be current. It just excludes some of the technical bulletins. The factory manuals provide procedures that are very helpful. Factory manuals are available on microfiche for about $30 or hardcopy for about $375. The $25 owner’s manual is a must. The Clinton manual does not help much. Most of the above are available from the big 3.

The “Parts and Technical Reference Catalog, Water Cooled Models; 924, 944, and 928 Models 1977 – 1988 contains 11 Technical Bulletins, VIN Information, Parts Lists with drawings or photos. The PET 5 CD contains more detailed parts explosions, search feature, ability to tag parts and print out associated lists, etc. I would and do own both of these.

Optional Work:
While you have the pulley driven fan off, you may want to replenish the silicon with Toyota supplied fan clutch fluid. You may also wish to replace the front main seal, and the oil pump seal while they are relatively exposed. Those seals are tough to change. You can pull the cam gears, and replace the front camshaft seals while they are accessible. You may replace the clutch fan bearings. Polish distributor cap and rotor contacts with a fine file.

Detailed Procedure & Photo Links:
1. Greg Nichols’ page has troubleshooting procedures for the timing belt light and more: <a href="http://www.nichols.nu/tips.htm" target="_blank">http://www.nichols.nu/tips.htm</a>
2. Tony’s page has pictures and procedures: <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/v1uhoh/index.htm" target="_blank">http://members.rennlist.com/v1uhoh/index.htm</a>
3. John Pirtle’s site goes into great detail, with awesome pictures: <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/pirtle/svc.html" target="_blank">http://members.rennlist.com/pirtle/svc.html</a>
4. This link is to an Adobe Acrobat Reader document that has numerous service procedures. Download or open it here: <a href="http://www.jageng.com/sharkbit_2.htm" target="_blank">http://www.jageng.com/sharkbit_2.htm</a>
5. Another site with written procedures: <a href="http://www.kondratyev.com/porsche/" target="_blank">http://www.kondratyev.com/porsche/</a>

Camshaft alignment note:
If the belt slipped, you should start with the crankshaft at 45 BTDC (45 degrees Before Top Dead Center) rather than TDC. This keeps pistons from hitting valves. As a check - distributor rotors must point left and down. Align camshafts with the TDC notches on the cam gears at 22.5 degrees (3 teeth) before (to the left of – when looking rear-ward) the notches on the back timing belt covers. This corresponds to the 45 BTDC crankshaft setting. There are 48 teeth on the cam gear, and 24 teeth on the crank gear. When the crankshaft turns 45 degrees, the camshaft turns 22.5 degrees. 22.5/360 degrees = .0625 = 3/48 cam gear teeth. Adjust the math if the number of teeth on your cam gear and/or crank gear are different.

Parts and tool prices posted by others:

Here is a general list of items needed to replace the Tbelt...
Item No. Price
Timing Belt* 1 $44.00
Flywheel Locking Tool 1 $16.00
Thermostat 1 $25.00
Thermostat O-ring 1 -
Tensioner Boot* 1 $6.00
Tensioner Boot Clamp* 1 $5.50
Tensioner Gasket* 1 $12.00
Tensioner Inner Seal* 2
Tensioner Large Roller* 1 $55.00
Tensioner Idler Bushing*1 $1.70
Water Pump* 1 $119.00
Water Pump Gasket* 1 $1.65
Belt Tension Tool 1 $59.00
Accessory Belts 3

Jay
'87 S4 Auto

1979 PORSCHE 928 PARTS LIST
PART NUMBER DESCRIPTION QTY PRICE
928-107-201-5 OIL FILTER 1 $5.00
928-105-157-00 TIMING BELT 1 $27.00
999-701-602-40 "O" RING DIST.HOUS. 2 $8.00
928-105-184-00 CAM SEAL DIST.HOUS. 2 $6.00
928-602-103-00 "O" RING DIST.SHAFT 1 $4.00
999-924-002-40 TENS.CARRIER BUSH. 2 $6.00
928-602-902-00 DISTRIBUTOR CAP 1 $55.00
928-602-904-03 DIST ROTOR 1 $12.00
999-113-275-40 OIL PUMP SEAL 1 $5.00
999-701-633-40 OIL PUMP "O" RING 1 $6.00
999-113-263-40 FRONT CRANK SEAL 1 $12.00
FLYWHEEL LOCK 1 $20.00 BELT TENSION 1 $59.00

Curt
Ventura CA
79 Euro 5spd.

Belt $85
WP $120 (rebuilt)
Tensioner kit (boot, boot clamp, gasket, wire, o-ring) about $22
Rollers about $125
Bushings $30
V-belts $40
aftermarket tensioner gauge $50
flywheel lock $20
Up & Lo Rad Hoses $50
Oil pump o-ring and seal $35
Main seal $28
All other coolant/heater hoses, if needed $170
Cam gears (if worn) $80 each
Oil pump gear (if worn) $58

Bill
89 S4
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Jeff McVicar

Damm That's a nice post ,man...thanks a million. I'll have to check the belt tention. It was changes at 75,000 according to the maintnance schedule book I found in the door compartment. They had the thing kept up till '95 and then stopped driving it apperently. I'll have to go over that book again more closely. I gotta get an owners manual.. There wasnt one in the glove box...But ironically enough the original invoice was hahaha. All fallin apart and everything. $45,000+.....with no power locks..cheapskates haha. I cannot even imagine my parents ever being able to afford that, in 83. I was only 15 so that was a rich guys car to me. And to thing I was going to restore a Trans Am.....this is way cooler.
Thanks again man, I'll check it all out. I currently need a front left fender and front rubber spoiler. So I'll be doing that first the3n get into the motor. Do they make a chain conversion for the timing? That would be nice to have slotted sprockets to fine tune the cam timing. Wouldnt do too much on a 16 valve but a 32 valve could make a lot more power hahaha.

Ed Ruiz

If the belt has not been changed since 1995, then it's overdue. The replacement interval is every 60k miles or 60 months - whichever occurs first. YMMV.

Jeff McVicar

Cool then thats on the list.....thanks. Man I gotta get a manual.

Thom1

Glad to help.

If you have 8 years on that belt, it is way past the 5 year replacement interval regardless of mileage. I drop in to visit with my mechanic from time to time even though the shark is cool. He recommended that a guy replace his belt a few months ago. A little later the car was back in the shop with many of the rubber teeth stripped right off the belt. He was lucky to survive without valve damage. I was not so lucky. I did not know how seriously to take the belt, rollers, etc. on the front of the engine. The dealer estimated about $5-8k for the repair. I did it myself, and still probably spent $2k. That is when I started writing procedures as people helped me hobble through the repairs. I would not even rev your car high until you replace the belt. It seems expensive to replace all the other front end stuff too. But, one of my rollers went bad after I had changed the belt and pump. I did not know that I needed to do the complete service. That was extremely expensive ignorance.

Hey, keep all the original documentation and stuff. People even collect the plastic gloves and bag for tire change.

I do not know of any chain kit.

Enjoy the car. It sounds like it is well worth fixing up right.
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Jeff McVicar

Well that settles that I'm on it! hahaha.. When yours went, did you have to replace any valve seats or just resurface? Any piston damage or could you save them. Valve guides? Are the seats pressed in? You seem to be the one to ask hahaha.
Oh yeh here is my car when I first picked it up..check it out. <a href="http://jeffmcvicar.com/928project/page_01.htm" target="_blank">http://jeffmcvicar.com/928project/page_01.htm</a>

Thom1

Well that settles that I'm on it! hahaha.. When yours went, did you have to replace any valve seats or just resurface?
* I had the heads rebuilt. I do not think they replaced any seats.

Any piston damage or could you save them.
* No piston damage

Valve guides?
* Yes for 2 intake valves and 16 exhaust valves that I replaced. With 15 year old exhaust valves being somewhat burnt, the machine shop strongly advised me to replace all of them.

Are the seats pressed in? You seem to be the one to ask hahaha.
Oh yeh here is my car when I first picked it up..check it out. <a href="http://jeffmcvicar.com/928project/page_01.htm" target="_blank">http://jeffmcvicar.com/928project/page_01.htm</a>

* Nice car, cute kid.
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Old & New

Jeff,

Don't get wiggy about the belt. You have a sixteen valve non-intersection engine which will not be damaged upon failure of the belt. But change it since it is (over)due.

And you won't see a tension warning light, because your.83.don't.got.one...

4MIDLIF

Jeff, read the "New Visitor's" post at the top of the page. It contains valuable informaiton and links.