MM951

Hey guys.. I think this is my first post on the 928 boards

Recently I've seen a few 928s (black GT, white S4, black 78-80) around and they look pretty cool although I gotta say I prefer the look of my 951.

I was thinking of getting rid of my NA and maybe getting into an early 928, maybe something like a 78-82. What is the up keep on these like? Can anyone give me a few examples of common issues that pop up and the average cost? How are they to work on compared to a 944 or 951?

Will there be a noticable improvement in acceleration/ride quailtly/handling etc from my NA? I'm not expecting modded 951 performance out of an early 928 but I would like something quicker then my na.

Does anyone drive their 928 daily and through winter? Were all 928s galvanized ?

thanks guys
Mike

largecar379

basically, you have several versions of the early 928's.

US spec with 4.5L and 4.7L engines

Euro/ROW spec with 4.5L and 4.7L engines

85-86 come with the 5.0L 32V engine, with the 86.5 also getting Brembo 4 piston brakes and other upgrades (transition to the S4)

each (US and Euro/ROW) came with automatics (early models had a 3 speed, later had a 4 speed) and 5-speed manuals. Auto equipped cars are plentiful, 5-speeds are more rare (the Germans thought we lazy Americans couldn't shift a manual-----)

the Euro/ROW's are more desire-able because of higher HP and torque ratings (and they are more rare)

86.5 is highly desire-able as well, due to the 32V, Brembo Brakes, and other upgrades (again, an S4 in early body style's clothing)

this does not take much away from the US spec models, as they were very quick also.

928's are heavy cars, but have 50/50 weight balance. 928 engines are very "torquey", so the heavy feel is not as noticeable if you have one of the higher HP models.

the body is galvanized/cosmoline coated steel, the front fenders and hood are aluminum.

There are more details in the specific year models, but these are just the basics that come off the top of my feeble mind.....

Others here can guide into more details.


---Russ

largecar379

upkeep amounts to normal stuff, the exception (not a 928 exception, but you get the idea) being timing belt replacement every 5 years or 40,000 miles.

if yo are familiar with "all things Porsche" considering maintenance, you'll have no trouble with 928----FWM's are a must.

some drive their 928 year round, in all kinds of weather.

I personally don't live in the snow belt----far from it, but if I did----my 928 would not see any adverse weather other than rain.

You should stay away from 928's with rust (I have one), as it is very expensive to repair.

as with all Porsche's, a PPI before buying is always advised.


hope this helps-----

--Russ

Podguy

There is a big difference between the 78-79 and 80-82 US spec cars. When Porsche added the electronic injection for US economy and smog laws they killed the car. The Euro version branched off at 80 retaining the CIS injection and then adding an S model with 300 HP. The newer cars are heavier and more luxurious. If you want plush then go for the S4 or newer cars. If you want a Porsche like driving experience stick with the early CIS cars. The 300 HP Euro car is a monster.

Porsche intended and marketed the 928 as a maintenance free car. Gone are the 3000 mile valve ajustments. Maintenance schedules were supposed to be 5000 to 7500 between oil changes and 50,000 to 100,000 between major tune ups. Sadly it did not work out this way. Instead the 928 turned out to be a very high maintence car. Worse since it was built from the ground up as a limited production car the cost of parts is extraordinary. Add in the reliability factors of the late 70s 80s cars in general and you have a very expensive car to maintain. Things only get worse when you consider the amount of luxury poured into these cars and the lack of quality applied to these luxury items. Unlike Mercedes interior that last forever, the 928 interior deteriorates faster than it can be repaired, Add in the failure rate of all the gadgets and it is highly unlikely you will have a car where everything works all at one time.

These factors are the reason that 928s are often in such rough condtion and sell so cheap. Yet they are world class cars. There is nothing to compare. While the 911 will flip end for end or even go on its roof if handled improperly the 928 is almost impossible to over drive. There is plenty of power to power through any situation and if you make a mistake hitting the brakes will bail you out. Modifications to the suspension just compromise the integrity of the driving experience that I like to compare to a Cadilac ride with go cart handling.

As far as a winter car - personally I would say forget it. The front is heavy and low thus you will plow through the snow. WIth out limited slip you will not get the traction. Wide tires are notoriously bad for snow handling. Worse there is little under carriage integrity to the car. There are far too many places for snow and salt to accumulate. Even working on cars from Florida is a challenge as everything is corroded. Yes the body is glavanized and the under carriage is coated, but there are many, many exposed wires to get corroded. Even the alternator and A/C pump mounted low on the engine are hazards waiting for rough roads and excess water.

I do not mean to discourage you. The 928 is a great car. Once you drive one for a while you will not want any other Porsche. The drive and balance is additive - especially for the CIS five speed cars. The comfort allows one to drive all day, get out of the car and feel like you just went around the block. In many cases the experience of a long drive will just not be enough and you will want to go some more.

Here is a link to a comparison of models I wrote some time back.

http://www.kondratyev.com/porsche/technical/models.htm

It is not complete but will give you a good overview of the car.

Welcome to the club

Dan the Pod Guy

bronto

Dan nice writeup in the 928 history. Why isn't the famous 86.5 broken out? Also, my '79 owner's manual says that an alarm is an option. Even explains how the different keys work. But mine doesn't have it.

Vilhuer

Alarm was option to at least up to S4. It might have become standard on some markets like in US after that.

F451

I went from a n/a '83 944 to an '85 928 auto. I loved the 944, it was in excellent shape when I bought it (I looked for a long time). But, as you know, they are not exactly torque monsters. And they are a bit tight for my '6'6" frame. 944 are great cars, and I love their looks too.

With 928's being so cheap (relatively), I bought the '85 auto as an experiment to see what the 928 was all about. I loved it. Even though I am a manual tranny guy, I was surprised how much I liked the 928 auto. And of course its way more roomy then a 944.

I eventually bought a 5 sp S4 and I love it even more.

You will love the torque on the 928. It pulls nicely from the bottom, and seems to just keep pulling through the rev range. You can quickly and easily find yourself well exceeding the speed limit without even realizing it.

And when you first drive one, you may notice that the control inputs are fairly heavy. Things seem to happen slower then in the 944. It may also seem heavier, and not as quick through the turns, which makes sense compared to a 944.

But, as you drive it more, you will likely be amazed at how well it handles, and how well it transitions in the turns. It really is a great handling car. And you will get used to the control inputs, and realize they are actually beneficial to be on the heavy side when you are booking along at 100+ for miles and miles (not that I've ever done that).

I am considering buying an older 78-79 928 too, as I've read they are just as much fun as the older models, but just in a different way.

Good luck with your search, keep us posted if you find any candidates. You may be able to get one of the local 928 guys to go along with you to look at it.

And a 951 & 928 would be an awesome combination.

bronto

I have a '79, and recently had opportunity to drive Shawn's '88. I was really surprised how heavy it felt, as noted above. I don't know if Shawn's feels abnormally heavy or mine abnormally light, but from my experience the '79s don't feel heavy at all. It's as easy to steer as my old Opel GT, which (if I'm remembering correctly) didn't even need power steering. The difference was really surprising to me because I didn't even think the newer body style was that much heavier. And the road feel is so good that when I got it I popped the hood to make sure it actually had power steering.

F451

Very interesting. I would love to see what that feels like - a lighter feeling 928 that is.

I haven't driven a '78-'79 5 sp yet, but everything I am hearing is along the lines of what you are saying. And this is making it very tough for me not to go out and find a '78-'79 and take it out for some track days.

The only problem is I bought my S4 about a year ago, and my wife will go ballistic if I talk about getting another 928, without first selling the S4 - which I am not sure I want to do.

I really need to figure out some way to keep my S4 and to be able to buy an old boy.

Ok, I'm making a list of things I can sell.
1. Mtn bike.
2. Concept 2 rower/ergometer.
3. Left nut (not much use anymore anyway)...

ShawnSmith

My 88 S4 has a wide front wheel/tire setup that probably increases the already fairly heavy early-S4 steering feel.

I intend to uprate the power steering pump and supply line to compensate - a project slated for this spring. Hopefully that'll lighten things up a bit.

MM951

Thanks for all the great responses...keep em comin'!

I think at this point I'll drive my n/a through the winter while I drool over 928s. Once spring rolls around does any 928 driver in the Albany/Hudson Valley NY area want to give me a ride? I'd love to get a feel for the car and see if it really fits.

I'd let you drive my modded 951

Thanks!
Mike

bronto

Use the winter months to drive as many as you can so you'll know what you want in the spring.

Andre Hedrick

Find Animal from New Hampshire!

Oh and don't threaten me with a good time to drive your M951 !

Daniel Dudley

Mike, I also live in the Red Hook area. I have an 80 five speed, and although it isn't a whole lot different to 60 than a good 944s, it is considerably quicker from 60 to 90. Having had a good 951, No, it is nowhere near as fast, but a lot of instant torque and snap throttle response. I tend to pick up speed quickly out of a corner, and cruise to the next bend, as opposed to rolling up boost and flying up at the last bit of straight. The OBs don't shift as sweetly as a 951 though, which is a pretty civilized car to drive in normal traffic situations. Fun cars, both of them.

ShawnSmith

As long as we're tossing around subjective feelings on the older vs newer 928 driving experience, I'll put in my two cents.

I love the power delivery and civility of my 88 S4. Upon driving a nicely preserved 78 OB, I found two main reactions. Firstly, the steering on the 78 was just a whole bunch nicer. Lighter, better feel, etc.

The other thing I was hit with was just how vague that old 5 speed gearbox was. I'm sure with time I'd get used to it, but yikers shifting it involved really long rather sloppy movements of the shift lever.

Whoever it was who was saying they had constructed an 82 with S4 running gear would have just about an ideal setup. You want the body and steering from the old bugger, and the motor/brakes/gearbox off the newer one.

I'm gonna try and do it the opposite way, updating ps pump to improve the steering of my S4, then add so much torque to the motor that it just won't matter than it's a couple hundred pounds heavier. Throw in some bilsteins and some tactful weight savings, and maybe I'll be in the ballpark. It'll be fun trying.