928 GTS VALUES?
08-16-2002, 01:11 AM
#1
Track Day
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928 GTS VALUES?
Hello fellow Rennlist members,
Thank you all so much for for your help and enthuesiasm with my Strosek Twin Supercharged project car. I'm happy to report the car is definattly going back to original Strosek spec and I will keep everyone up to date as things develop.
This process however will leave me without a 928 for quite some time and thus I'm in the market for a 5 speed GTS.
What are these cars really woth?
They are the best, I love them but in all reality I ask are they really worth 2-3 times as much as a low mile s4 or gt?
I see cars for sale of up to 60,000 dollars and ones as low as 25,000 in the retail market. The range is based largly on dealer hype and milage it seems. This is useless however though because ask the dealer who wants 60 if he will buy your car for 50 or 55, answer, NO WAY! Buy a GTS because it drives so much better and then what, don't drive the car because it has low miles? Whats the point?
Simple econimics suggests that eventually the bubble must burst. If A GTS is a 25% better car than a s4 or GT than it evenyually will be only worth that much more. Translation:
Poor s4 10K
Average/good s4 15K
GT 20K - 25K
GTS 25K - 35K
Do these prices reflect the real deal or are people actually paying 40K - 60K?
Who would not rather have a mint 5speed S4 and 20-40K in change?
Every one who thinks I just want values to be lower so I can save money you are of course correct, but in all reality I ask is my rational for their values incorrect?
Please advise,
Arthur
Thank you all so much for for your help and enthuesiasm with my Strosek Twin Supercharged project car. I'm happy to report the car is definattly going back to original Strosek spec and I will keep everyone up to date as things develop.
This process however will leave me without a 928 for quite some time and thus I'm in the market for a 5 speed GTS.
What are these cars really woth?
They are the best, I love them but in all reality I ask are they really worth 2-3 times as much as a low mile s4 or gt?
I see cars for sale of up to 60,000 dollars and ones as low as 25,000 in the retail market. The range is based largly on dealer hype and milage it seems. This is useless however though because ask the dealer who wants 60 if he will buy your car for 50 or 55, answer, NO WAY! Buy a GTS because it drives so much better and then what, don't drive the car because it has low miles? Whats the point?
Simple econimics suggests that eventually the bubble must burst. If A GTS is a 25% better car than a s4 or GT than it evenyually will be only worth that much more. Translation:
Poor s4 10K
Average/good s4 15K
GT 20K - 25K
GTS 25K - 35K
Do these prices reflect the real deal or are people actually paying 40K - 60K?
Who would not rather have a mint 5speed S4 and 20-40K in change?
Every one who thinks I just want values to be lower so I can save money you are of course correct, but in all reality I ask is my rational for their values incorrect?
Please advise,
Arthur
08-16-2002, 01:48 AM
#2
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Though quite a few people are asking 40k to 60K for GTS's few people are paying that for them. It seems these few mint GTS examples sit forever and ever on E Bay and various other sites.
I personally would rather have a mint S4 or GT that an overpriced GTS. Even if I wanted to spend 40 to 60k on a 928 I'd sooner modify the mint S4 or GT.
That's my 2 cents <img src="graemlins/r.gif" border="0" alt="[king]" />
I personally would rather have a mint S4 or GT that an overpriced GTS. Even if I wanted to spend 40 to 60k on a 928 I'd sooner modify the mint S4 or GT.
That's my 2 cents <img src="graemlins/r.gif" border="0" alt="[king]" />
08-16-2002, 04:15 AM
#3
Burning Brakes
Very little GTSs and ALOT of S4s and GTs. They are very rare. It's not hard to see why they are so expensive. They even hold their value better than the 933s(more made).
08-16-2002, 05:20 AM
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Track Day
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Weissach?
Could not agree with you more about the theory of supply and demand, thus GTS's should be worth more than the other cars in theory.
However supply and demand is an basic econimc principal that comes after MARKETS!
According to economic law the theory of supply and demand is only relavant in ACTIVE economic MARKETS.
In short the point is that GTS used to be a rare commodity in the very active "used new car" MARKET. Presently however they are in limbo on there way firmly to "the too old for anyone who is not a 928 freak to now what it is" market. When the cars get to this market it will be increasingly illrelavant that the cars are more rare than other 928's because the whole market will be dead on all of these cars. From here the only interest at all in the cars will be of people who are such dedicated enthuesiastes that they will be smart enough to know that while they love the car not to many other people do so why start an auction.
Then about 10-15 years from now all 928's will become collector cars. At this point value will be on CONDITION as the cars never had any racing history and they will all be considered slow bla bla bla.
Point is use them and enjoy them, in my opinion 928's will become like the performance GT of old Landrovers. The best ones will be the ones that work, have a great history of owners, and can be used in ralley/club events. We are all 928 lovers here and why?
Because we pay cash for our cars, keep them, and use them. When we see one another we wave and smile. We do not frown on a early euro car, it's more like wow that was a bad *** car for 1980. Is this true of the Boxster set. Please, those guys are not "real car guys"
The 928 in 20 years will be the "driver" of the guy with Turbo's, speedsters, Ferrari's, Lamborghinis, etc. like a 400 ferrai.
The boxter will be a trailer queen for some guy that always wanted one but either never got one or always had one and simply never grew up.
Case in point, the Weissach 928, how many did they make and what is it worth today? I personaly love the Weissach car and think it is really cool but we all now it probably is only worth more than any other old 928 if the Weisach car is in better condition.
I don't mean to be a hard *** but the truth is I want to share experiance. My trade is International Finance and currency trading so MARKETS are something I'm familiar with. Second My Grandfather used to have Thomas Flyers, Stutz, and old Renault sports cars that had to be cranked to start. Then my dad was into cars from the Thirties like Packards, Delahayes, Bugattis etc that today we only look at. Then my dad along with my brother and I got into Ferraris Bentleys Astons from the 50's - 70's that all went crazy in the late 80's and then dropped like a bomb in the early 90's and through it all one thing I found is true MEN LIKE TO ACT LIKE BOYS THEIR WHOLE LIFE and when old men die very few peolpe want to play with their toys that are so old the next generation never even new they were ever built.
I have a Countach it is a peice of junk to drive and largly useless other than furfilling a child hood dream, the 928 is awsome to drive will kick the countach's *** any day but the Lambo's best and you now what, 20 years from now I will probably sell my Countach for 500K and the 928 for 50K with inflation staying moderate.
Please a message to all I LOVE THE 928 GTS but please enjoy your cars and drive them! I now many people who could not send their second or third child to the college of choice because they lost there *** on cars they never drove. In the mean time my brother and I drove Daytona's & Gullwings to high school when they were 500K. Then when everything went boom we had to sell all our cars and come back to reality including me the younger son going to a state school. Did I turn out bad, no. Life is what you make of it not what you try and take away from it so get out there and use the dame things while you can.
Wait 6months to 2 years and watch, older 928's wont go down any further but the GTS cars will. WHY? Because GTS cars will move from one market to another where as are good old sharks are here to stay and soon to be joined by our GTS big brothers.
So in the mean time stick with your cool Weisach, a 15K 5speed S4, Early Euro car, 91 GT, or auto dayly driver and be happy. Trust me the GTS's will come down sooner rather than later.
Arthur
Could not agree with you more about the theory of supply and demand, thus GTS's should be worth more than the other cars in theory.
However supply and demand is an basic econimc principal that comes after MARKETS!
According to economic law the theory of supply and demand is only relavant in ACTIVE economic MARKETS.
In short the point is that GTS used to be a rare commodity in the very active "used new car" MARKET. Presently however they are in limbo on there way firmly to "the too old for anyone who is not a 928 freak to now what it is" market. When the cars get to this market it will be increasingly illrelavant that the cars are more rare than other 928's because the whole market will be dead on all of these cars. From here the only interest at all in the cars will be of people who are such dedicated enthuesiastes that they will be smart enough to know that while they love the car not to many other people do so why start an auction.
Then about 10-15 years from now all 928's will become collector cars. At this point value will be on CONDITION as the cars never had any racing history and they will all be considered slow bla bla bla.
Point is use them and enjoy them, in my opinion 928's will become like the performance GT of old Landrovers. The best ones will be the ones that work, have a great history of owners, and can be used in ralley/club events. We are all 928 lovers here and why?
Because we pay cash for our cars, keep them, and use them. When we see one another we wave and smile. We do not frown on a early euro car, it's more like wow that was a bad *** car for 1980. Is this true of the Boxster set. Please, those guys are not "real car guys"
The 928 in 20 years will be the "driver" of the guy with Turbo's, speedsters, Ferrari's, Lamborghinis, etc. like a 400 ferrai.
The boxter will be a trailer queen for some guy that always wanted one but either never got one or always had one and simply never grew up.
Case in point, the Weissach 928, how many did they make and what is it worth today? I personaly love the Weissach car and think it is really cool but we all now it probably is only worth more than any other old 928 if the Weisach car is in better condition.
I don't mean to be a hard *** but the truth is I want to share experiance. My trade is International Finance and currency trading so MARKETS are something I'm familiar with. Second My Grandfather used to have Thomas Flyers, Stutz, and old Renault sports cars that had to be cranked to start. Then my dad was into cars from the Thirties like Packards, Delahayes, Bugattis etc that today we only look at. Then my dad along with my brother and I got into Ferraris Bentleys Astons from the 50's - 70's that all went crazy in the late 80's and then dropped like a bomb in the early 90's and through it all one thing I found is true MEN LIKE TO ACT LIKE BOYS THEIR WHOLE LIFE and when old men die very few peolpe want to play with their toys that are so old the next generation never even new they were ever built.
I have a Countach it is a peice of junk to drive and largly useless other than furfilling a child hood dream, the 928 is awsome to drive will kick the countach's *** any day but the Lambo's best and you now what, 20 years from now I will probably sell my Countach for 500K and the 928 for 50K with inflation staying moderate.
Please a message to all I LOVE THE 928 GTS but please enjoy your cars and drive them! I now many people who could not send their second or third child to the college of choice because they lost there *** on cars they never drove. In the mean time my brother and I drove Daytona's & Gullwings to high school when they were 500K. Then when everything went boom we had to sell all our cars and come back to reality including me the younger son going to a state school. Did I turn out bad, no. Life is what you make of it not what you try and take away from it so get out there and use the dame things while you can.
Wait 6months to 2 years and watch, older 928's wont go down any further but the GTS cars will. WHY? Because GTS cars will move from one market to another where as are good old sharks are here to stay and soon to be joined by our GTS big brothers.
So in the mean time stick with your cool Weisach, a 15K 5speed S4, Early Euro car, 91 GT, or auto dayly driver and be happy. Trust me the GTS's will come down sooner rather than later.
Arthur
08-16-2002, 06:12 AM
#5
Track Day
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NOW THIS TAKES THE CAKE.
TWO CARS ONE SILVER FROM A DEALER AT 70 AND ONE BLACK IN THE PAPER AT 30. THIS IS NOT A STABLE MARKET. IT IS MADNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CAR NUMBER 1
Your Search Turned Up 1 Hits.
This Page Will Show You The Final Hit. 1995 PORSCHE 928 GTS
Category: 928 Ad Number: 1267
Price: 68,500 Date Posted: 08/15/2002
Features
Year: 1995 Make: Porsche Model: 928 (all)
Miles: 6,300 Engine: Fuel Inj. Stereo:
Body Style: Coupe Transmission: Manual - 5 speed
Color: Polar Silver Drivetrain: 2 Wheel Drive
Options (denoted by check marks)
Power Steering Air Conditioning Rear Defroster
Power Brakes Sunroof Leather Seats
Air Bags Cruise Control Foglamps
Antilock Brakes Power Windows Alarm System
Traction Control Power Locks Intermittent Wipers
Description
928 GTS, Polar silver / Marble grey, 6,300 miles, 5 speed, CD changer, rear air, all service by Porsche, all original, window sticker, new condition, finest available.
Seller Information
Type of Seller: Dealer Company: RPM Sports Cars
Contact: Ray Joseph
Houston, TX 77024
U.S. Telephone: 713-465-4606
E-mail: Sales@rpmsportscars.com
Web Site: <a href="http://www.rpmsportscars.com/" target="_blank">http://www.rpmsportscars.com/</a>
CAR NUMBER 2
1993 Porsche 928 GTS $31000
This Car's Details
Price $31000
Mileage 58600
Exterior Color Black
Interior Color Black
Body Style Coupe
Doors Two Door
Engine 8 Cylinder Gasoline
Trans. Manual
Fuel Type Gasoline
Drive Type 2 wheel drive
Comments
Rare 5-speed, transferrable full extended warranty available, best offer over $31,000, Supple Leather Seats, Dark Rootwood Shift Level ****, Sport Shock Absorbers, Increased Air Conditioning, all books and records (call John at service shop 561-361-8181 for info), never wrecked, immaculately kept and serviced, 2nd owner purchased from original dealer in 1995, call 561-241-4978 or e-mail to edpopovich@aol.com
AND JUST IN CASE SOME ONE HAS TO SPEND 50+K THIS WEEK, MUST HAVE SILVER, MUST HAVE LOW MILEAGE, AND MUST BE COLLECTABLE CHECK OUT:
CAR NUMBER 3
Your Search Turned Up 1 Hits.
This Page Will Show You The Final Hit. 1994 Porsche 911 Speedster
Category: 911/993/996 Ad Number: 1262
Price: 53500 Date Posted: 08/14/2002
Features
Year: 1994 Make: Porsche Model: 964 C2
Miles: 13050 Engine: Fuel Inj. Stereo: AM-FM/Cassette
Body Style: Speedster Transmission: Manual - 5 speed
Color: Polar Silver Drivetrain: 2 Wheel Drive
Options (denoted by check marks)
Power Steering Air Conditioning Rear Defroster
Power Brakes Sunroof Leather Seats
Air Bags Cruise Control Foglamps
Antilock Brakes Power Windows Alarm System
Traction Control Power Locks Intermittent Wipers
Description
(VIN: WP0CB2969RS465274), polar silver/black leather, 13,050 miles, 5-spd., a/c, radio, power windows, sport seats, 1 of 427 sold in the US, 1 of 5 painted polar silver, all service records, certificate of authenticity, original paint, no external or internal flaws, 3 owners since new, clean CarFax and AutoCheck reports, full coverage aftermarket warranty available, a superb example of a very rare Porsche in a very rare color combo. Offered at $53,500 obo. Brian @ 812.876.5015 or <a href="http://www.BuxtonMotorsports.com" target="_blank">www.BuxtonMotorsports.com</a> for pics and more info.
Seller Information
Type of Seller: Dealer Company: Buxton Motorsports, Inc.
Contact: Brian Buxton
8401 N. Kentucky Ave. Ste. E
Evansville, IN 47725
USA Telephone: 812.867.5015
E-mail: BrianBuxton@BuxtonMotorsports.com
Web Site: <a href="http://www.BuxtonMotorsports.com" target="_blank">http://www.BuxtonMotorsports.com</a>
TWO CARS ONE SILVER FROM A DEALER AT 70 AND ONE BLACK IN THE PAPER AT 30. THIS IS NOT A STABLE MARKET. IT IS MADNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CAR NUMBER 1
Your Search Turned Up 1 Hits.
This Page Will Show You The Final Hit. 1995 PORSCHE 928 GTS
Category: 928 Ad Number: 1267
Price: 68,500 Date Posted: 08/15/2002
Features
Year: 1995 Make: Porsche Model: 928 (all)
Miles: 6,300 Engine: Fuel Inj. Stereo:
Body Style: Coupe Transmission: Manual - 5 speed
Color: Polar Silver Drivetrain: 2 Wheel Drive
Options (denoted by check marks)
Power Steering Air Conditioning Rear Defroster
Power Brakes Sunroof Leather Seats
Air Bags Cruise Control Foglamps
Antilock Brakes Power Windows Alarm System
Traction Control Power Locks Intermittent Wipers
Description
928 GTS, Polar silver / Marble grey, 6,300 miles, 5 speed, CD changer, rear air, all service by Porsche, all original, window sticker, new condition, finest available.
Seller Information
Type of Seller: Dealer Company: RPM Sports Cars
Contact: Ray Joseph
Houston, TX 77024
U.S. Telephone: 713-465-4606
E-mail: Sales@rpmsportscars.com
Web Site: <a href="http://www.rpmsportscars.com/" target="_blank">http://www.rpmsportscars.com/</a>
CAR NUMBER 2
1993 Porsche 928 GTS $31000
This Car's Details
Price $31000
Mileage 58600
Exterior Color Black
Interior Color Black
Body Style Coupe
Doors Two Door
Engine 8 Cylinder Gasoline
Trans. Manual
Fuel Type Gasoline
Drive Type 2 wheel drive
Comments
Rare 5-speed, transferrable full extended warranty available, best offer over $31,000, Supple Leather Seats, Dark Rootwood Shift Level ****, Sport Shock Absorbers, Increased Air Conditioning, all books and records (call John at service shop 561-361-8181 for info), never wrecked, immaculately kept and serviced, 2nd owner purchased from original dealer in 1995, call 561-241-4978 or e-mail to edpopovich@aol.com
AND JUST IN CASE SOME ONE HAS TO SPEND 50+K THIS WEEK, MUST HAVE SILVER, MUST HAVE LOW MILEAGE, AND MUST BE COLLECTABLE CHECK OUT:
CAR NUMBER 3
Your Search Turned Up 1 Hits.
This Page Will Show You The Final Hit. 1994 Porsche 911 Speedster
Category: 911/993/996 Ad Number: 1262
Price: 53500 Date Posted: 08/14/2002
Features
Year: 1994 Make: Porsche Model: 964 C2
Miles: 13050 Engine: Fuel Inj. Stereo: AM-FM/Cassette
Body Style: Speedster Transmission: Manual - 5 speed
Color: Polar Silver Drivetrain: 2 Wheel Drive
Options (denoted by check marks)
Power Steering Air Conditioning Rear Defroster
Power Brakes Sunroof Leather Seats
Air Bags Cruise Control Foglamps
Antilock Brakes Power Windows Alarm System
Traction Control Power Locks Intermittent Wipers
Description
(VIN: WP0CB2969RS465274), polar silver/black leather, 13,050 miles, 5-spd., a/c, radio, power windows, sport seats, 1 of 427 sold in the US, 1 of 5 painted polar silver, all service records, certificate of authenticity, original paint, no external or internal flaws, 3 owners since new, clean CarFax and AutoCheck reports, full coverage aftermarket warranty available, a superb example of a very rare Porsche in a very rare color combo. Offered at $53,500 obo. Brian @ 812.876.5015 or <a href="http://www.BuxtonMotorsports.com" target="_blank">www.BuxtonMotorsports.com</a> for pics and more info.
Seller Information
Type of Seller: Dealer Company: Buxton Motorsports, Inc.
Contact: Brian Buxton
8401 N. Kentucky Ave. Ste. E
Evansville, IN 47725
USA Telephone: 812.867.5015
E-mail: BrianBuxton@BuxtonMotorsports.com
Web Site: <a href="http://www.BuxtonMotorsports.com" target="_blank">http://www.BuxtonMotorsports.com</a>
08-16-2002, 10:45 AM
#7
Three Wheelin'
Keep in mind also that the s4 and GT's are all 10 years old + and many have gone through part of the cycle of replacing parts that need replacing due to age like brains, MAFs, motor mounts, shocks, A/C gremilin etc... The GTS cars will probably be seeing some of these fixes in the next couple of years. The GTS is worth more, but if you have to stretch it to afford one, I would get a GT.
Trending Topics
08-16-2002, 12:53 PM
#8
Drifting
[quote]Do these prices reflect the real deal or are people actually paying 40K - 60K?<hr></blockquote>
Based on first hand experience, yes they are. But its more like 40-50k and the only ones in this price range are the 1995 GTS 5-speeds. Last year made. You dont have many to choose from, since there were only about 20-22 of them sold in the US. I know a couple of the owners and they aint selling! So now its even less to choose from. If you want one badly enough, your gonna pay. Is it worth it? Only you can decide that. I paid better than 10k for my 1979. But I got a car that was in such good condition and low milage (47k) that the only thing it needed when i bought it was a new set of shocks to replace the originals. The two previous owners really took good care of my car. For me it was like buying a new car. I believe in paying for condition. I dont have the time, skill or resources right now to restore a less than perfect car. If you think 928 GTS are overpriced, try looking for a real pre '87 Jeep CJ
with A/C. Good condition examples of these things are selling used for almost what they were new. Talk about holding value! If my wife wants one of these, shes gonna have to lower her expectations or get a YJ.
Based on first hand experience, yes they are. But its more like 40-50k and the only ones in this price range are the 1995 GTS 5-speeds. Last year made. You dont have many to choose from, since there were only about 20-22 of them sold in the US. I know a couple of the owners and they aint selling! So now its even less to choose from. If you want one badly enough, your gonna pay. Is it worth it? Only you can decide that. I paid better than 10k for my 1979. But I got a car that was in such good condition and low milage (47k) that the only thing it needed when i bought it was a new set of shocks to replace the originals. The two previous owners really took good care of my car. For me it was like buying a new car. I believe in paying for condition. I dont have the time, skill or resources right now to restore a less than perfect car. If you think 928 GTS are overpriced, try looking for a real pre '87 Jeep CJ
with A/C. Good condition examples of these things are selling used for almost what they were new. Talk about holding value! If my wife wants one of these, shes gonna have to lower her expectations or get a YJ.
