ShawnSmith

...and like most marriages, even if you test drive it, you don't _really_ know what you've got till you've lived with it for a few months

shmark

LUCKe27, I'm in Atlanta too and spent a lot of time looking for a good 5sp. Don't sell yourself short, it's worth waiting and finding the manual. These cars are fantastic performance machines and the auto just blunts that. The early cars are a lot more raw and the euros have lots of power, while later cars are more refined GTs. Go with what you like. Me, I prefer the early body style and the power deficit can be fixed pretty easily.

Bret928

The old “stuck in traffic” is admittedly a biggie, if you're trying to choose between an auto & a manual in most cars.

Normally I use 2nd & 3rd around town (25-35mph zones) and I rarely use 1st gear once the car is warmed up or unless I’m in a hurry . However in stop & go traffic – I find that 2nd is more than sufficient for most 5-10mph situations. Whereas most of the other cars I’ve ever owned with a manual – usually required a lot more gear selection & manipulation.

So IMO the only real down side to a manual is that you have to engage the clutch when coming to a stop & disengage it when starting out, even if you aren’t selecting a different gear – so yes – left foot fatigue can be an issue. But I’ve found that thanks to the V8 power & great gearing – I don’t really need to do engage the clutch near as much with my 78 Shark as I do with my 78 MGB with it’s little four banger.

But despite all that – the choice of a manual was a given for me. Besides the Shark isn’t my daily driver so commuting in stop & go rush hour traffic is an infrequent occurrence at best.

Podguy

Actually I would say the auto in a 928 is a lesser choice. It is not because automatics are per se bad. It is because of implementation. The way Porsche implemented the auto by stealing from Mercedes was a compromise. They did not have the bucks to design an auto for the 928 so they found one they could adapt cheap. The result is a high maintenance poorly set up and expensive unit.

Further complicating matters was the switch in the US models to high gearing to meet US gas mileage standards. The 2:20 final drive and the tendency of the transmission to always be in the freewheeling fourth gear makes the car pretty much un-drivable. Even if you are an automatic fan, this is just a bad combination. There are many performance cars with good automatic set ups. While I have not driven the newer TipTronic units I suspect they are much better. Even my Mercedes Wagon with about the same automatic was a better fit.

With the 928 it just feels like the car is in the wrong gear most of the time. Matching gear ratios to engine performance is critical. With the 5 speed - especially in the early cars - the engine is balanced with the transmission. Any one want to take bets on the preferred set up of the Porsche design engineers. This is why the 928 auto has the reputation as a Dentist's wife car.

Yes Porsche addressed the problem in 89 and the later cars by lowering the final drive ratio and Mercedes improving the reliability of the transmission.

One other factor to consider - age. I just rebuilt the 4 speed out of an 85. Getting a kit was only a mild inconvience - the Mercedes kit works. But other parts are another issue. I messed up a roller bearing. Mercedes had the bearing, but it had to come out of Georgia. There were only three in the country. The bearing was reasonably priced. I had less luck with the final drive seals. There are none in the country. Porsche wanted $56 each - takes two plus additional shipping to order them directly from Porsche. If I wanted other seals and o-rings then the cost was over $200 beyond the $300 I paid for the rebuilding kit.

The torque converter is another story. There are no exchanges. You have to send the core out to be rebuilt - if it can be rebuilt. Price is cheap at $250 and a couple of weeks. Just in parts ou are looking at $750 providing nothing is trashed inside.

Most shops are no longer rebuilding these transmissions. As more and more shops stop rebuilding them it will become more and more difficult to get parts. An auto is good for 75 to 100K miles. So if you are driving a high mileage 928 auto without a rebuilt trans you are sitting on a very expensive time bomb.

But then a cluch pack is about $1000 so maybe they are equivilant.

Dan the Pod Guy

Ispeed

I hope Roger doesn't see this...

AO

My first 928 was an 82 5speed. Loved the car, but it needed more power in my opinion. Stepped up to a GT a couple years back and last year threw a supercharger on that. The car is AWESOME! When i was looking for the upgrade, I did look at a couple of automatics... They were nice, fast, enjoyable, etc. but they didn't give you the thrill that the 5-speed does.

There is just something about the ability to put the car into any gear at any time that significantly adds to the enjoyment of the car. The 5-speed is the way to go in my opinion. If the automatics were on par with the 5-speeds, Porsche would have made an automatic GT... but alas... they did not! All the GT's are indeed 5-speeds!

Tampa 928s

Before I purchased my 86 5-speed I took 2 auto's for a test drive and the difference was at best amazing. I felt the auto did not do the car justice and if you can get a auto owner on the side they always will tell you I wish he had a 5-speed. The control and sound you can make with a few mods will open up your ears and you know you have a V-8 beast. But be ready to spend some money if there are no receipts from P.O. and in my logic I like to replace everything with new no matter what. Even if you get a well taken care of model you will always have the specter of was it done right and should I replace it anyways. Once you do this you in theory have a new car, so body and interior is to me the most important. You can spend a ton on that alone and if you can do the work yourself a few grand will put you into like new driving territory.

F451

Here we go again...

LUCKe27

Wow, thanks for all the advice. Honestly, I've been looking at several different Porsche models and haven't found the right match yet. I am going to hold out for a manual no matter what, as I already have an auto daily driver. My goal is to have a fun, manual car to drive on Tue and Thu when I'm not headed to the airport and for weekend driving. I think if I drive Mon, Wed, Fri in the auto ... I'll be less likely to get tired of the manual in traffic issue. So, how much should I pay for a well maintained 928? I'm looking to spend about $20k; so, what year would you go for with that budget. Many thanks, Kevin

SteveG

Not to flog this horse, but you missed this by Panzer:
"I would not give the auto garage space. I am trying to sell one so I am being honest when I write they are crap."

Maybe the one he is selling is crap, seems an odd way to sell a car. My mother-in-law was loved for saying: "Would you like some frozen yogurt, it's not very good." Funniest thing, I never tried it.

Wouldn't be the first time this has been discussed. Seems a lot of subjects go around here every 2 months.

shmark

I used to have a BMW 525 with an auto that drove me nuts. It always grabbed the highest gear possible, as fast as possible, and I had to bury the throttle to force it to downshift. Manual shifting was only marginally better, I hated the thing in what was otherwise a great car to drive. Manual all the way for me.

I'd dispute the $1000 clutch. If you get the whole thing, yes that's probably right. But replacing the clutch discs is a cheap, easy job that can be done in an afternoon, and most of the time that's all that is needed. Try that in a 944....

SteveG

Now who can answer that??? ???????????????

I know what you mean, though. It should be apparent it's not about year, it's about condition and mechanicals. You are asking generalities which indicate you want to be sure you don't pay too much. So here is a general thought. The nicer the car, the less likely that there will be a fire sale. Here's another, how long are you willing to wait??

Nice GTs go for $20K and up. If it is less than 20 you may want to look very closely at it. Several years ago I looked at a GT that sold on ebay for $14.5. The interior had been slightly abused to put a stereo in the back. I didn't drive it, it sounded good on the lot, but who knows. No history. Sounds like this might have been right for you, but . . . Re "waiting" : a $14.5 GT that is sound but not mint is rare. I got impatient and paid $11K for an '85 5-sp which was the color combo, sound, but not up to date on mech and nearby, no shipping. That might have been too much for some people, but I was tired of deferring the pleasure. Now nobody wants it at 9.5. Maybe this ramble helps.

F451

I see. Duly noted.

Damn automatic haters...

Back on topic, for $20k or so, you should be able to find a very nice 928. A pristine S4, a decent to excellent GT, a decent GTS?

And the old older car buying advice, budget some percentage of the purchase price for maint and repairs for soon after the purchase.

LUCKe27

Yeah, I realize that my question was too vague. How about this one, "If you had $20k to spend (and a few thousand set aside for surprises), what kind of Porsche or 928 would you look for and how would you go about trying to find it?" Perhaps that is a slightly better way to ask the question.

Shane

Low mileage '88-89 S4 manual or
A good to excellent '89-91 GT.

There are some changes in those years as well so really the best way to go about it is Research.