Who uses the new 15W-50 M1?
11-03-2007, 02:26 AM
#16
Burning Brakes
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Hi,
I did not want to contribute here for fear of being landed on by the Kibort/Amsoil 747!
If you wish to use a SAE50 lubricant either M1 15w-50 version will give excellent service in a 928!
Both have the critical HTHS viscosity well above Porsche's minimum of 3.5cSt (at around 4.5cSt) and neither are GF-4 rated
If tested by ACEA I suspect they would both be rated as A3/B3 - no need of course as they are for sale in the US. It is a great shame that Mobil will not sell their excellent Porsche Approved M1 5w-50 in the US
Regards
I did not want to contribute here for fear of being landed on by the Kibort/Amsoil 747!
If you wish to use a SAE50 lubricant either M1 15w-50 version will give excellent service in a 928!
Both have the critical HTHS viscosity well above Porsche's minimum of 3.5cSt (at around 4.5cSt) and neither are GF-4 rated
If tested by ACEA I suspect they would both be rated as A3/B3 - no need of course as they are for sale in the US. It is a great shame that Mobil will not sell their excellent Porsche Approved M1 5w-50 in the US
Regards
11-03-2007, 02:31 AM
#17
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Hey Doug! What about the ZDDP issue? It's no secret the oil companies have been putting lower amounts of zinc into the oil to "save" catalytic converters. If this is something that was part of the design of these motors, is that not still important?
No kidding - every car I own would be running it!!!! Well except the Cobra, 10w-30 for her.
No kidding - every car I own would be running it!!!! Well except the Cobra, 10w-30 for her.
11-03-2007, 02:33 AM
#18
11-03-2007, 02:45 AM
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11-03-2007, 02:49 AM
#20
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Extended Performance and regular Mobil 1 are different product lines. Extended Performance qualifies for their mileage guarantee, but regular Mobil 1 does not. Extended Performance is usually $1+ extra per quart. They probably came out with the "new" version just for pricing reasons and it is likely not a replacement.
11-03-2007, 02:51 AM
#21
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Hi,
Larry - with a bit of luck he won't torque here!
Enzo - both of the M1 15w-50 products mentioned have the highest levels of the (to some magical) "ZDDP" group of components (the only higher M1 product is Turbo Diesel 5w-40 aka Delvac 1 5w-40)
Mobil state "Recommended Consumer Applications" : HT/HS applications, Racing and flat tappet applications"
Don't let Kibort know about this secret source of power and torque though!
Lubricants using the new ashless Anti Wear (AW) additives combined with less from the ZDDP group are proving to actually have better engine durability performance when used as directed
No GF-4 rated lubricant should be used in a 928 engine
Regards
Larry - with a bit of luck he won't torque here!
Enzo - both of the M1 15w-50 products mentioned have the highest levels of the (to some magical) "ZDDP" group of components (the only higher M1 product is Turbo Diesel 5w-40 aka Delvac 1 5w-40)
Mobil state "Recommended Consumer Applications" : HT/HS applications, Racing and flat tappet applications"
Don't let Kibort know about this secret source of power and torque though!
Lubricants using the new ashless Anti Wear (AW) additives combined with less from the ZDDP group are proving to actually have better engine durability performance when used as directed
No GF-4 rated lubricant should be used in a 928 engine
Regards
11-03-2007, 03:10 AM
#23
I think that a lot of the fear/paranoia getting passed around in regards to the reduction of ZDDP is because people are assuming that the ZDDP is being removed, and nothing else is being added to take it's place. All people hear is that the ZDDP is being removed and they're convinced that their engines are doomed because of it.
11-03-2007, 03:15 AM
#24
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Larry - you are correct!
It is important to understand the specific needs of an engine and the specification required in a suitable lubricant. Who better to do this than the engine's manufacturer?
Regards - sorry to hijack the Thread
It is important to understand the specific needs of an engine and the specification required in a suitable lubricant. Who better to do this than the engine's manufacturer?
Regards - sorry to hijack the Thread
11-03-2007, 04:22 AM
#25
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am i crazy to spend $72 an oil change with Amsoil?
All i can say, is that i would entertain "new" 15-50 if it could keep pressure up at 5 bar at 260F temps.
I wont be the test mule.
Hard to argue with 93 race days over 6 full racing seasons using Amsoil.
mk
All i can say, is that i would entertain "new" 15-50 if it could keep pressure up at 5 bar at 260F temps.
I wont be the test mule.
Hard to argue with 93 race days over 6 full racing seasons using Amsoil.
mk
11-03-2007, 05:06 AM
#26
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Well, I got my questions answered! 
Glad I can feel good about spending less for a top quality oil that I have and will continue to swear by for a long time to come.
Incidentally, I know it's not a Porsche but I believe it is a testament to Mobil 1 ...I have a 1992 Ford F150 extended cab 2x4 that I custom ordered new in 1992. Since the first oil change I did on that truck, I have used Mobil 1. The truck now has 312,000+ miles on the clock and the engine purrs and is still quite strong. I just pulled a 1000 pound trailer with a 3200 pound Porsche loaded on it, back from Seattle last week using this truck. I'm a believer and fan of Mobil 1 and will continue to use it in all of my vehicles.
BTW, doesn't Amsoil stand for Amercian-SOIL? Don't want THAT in my engine!
Glad I can feel good about spending less for a top quality oil that I have and will continue to swear by for a long time to come. Incidentally, I know it's not a Porsche but I believe it is a testament to Mobil 1 ...I have a 1992 Ford F150 extended cab 2x4 that I custom ordered new in 1992. Since the first oil change I did on that truck, I have used Mobil 1. The truck now has 312,000+ miles on the clock and the engine purrs and is still quite strong. I just pulled a 1000 pound trailer with a 3200 pound Porsche loaded on it, back from Seattle last week using this truck. I'm a believer and fan of Mobil 1 and will continue to use it in all of my vehicles.
BTW, doesn't Amsoil stand for Amercian-SOIL? Don't want THAT in my engine!
11-03-2007, 05:41 AM
#27
Burning Brakes
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Hi,
Mark - it is nice to have a light moment or two but this was a genuine question or two about M1 and Amsoil really has nothing to do with the comments. They make their own GF4 lubricants of course that are unsuitable for a 928 and using some of ExxonMobil's vital components
I can say though that in 1941 the German Engineers who were developing some of the Esters etc that make up the modern synthetic oils threw out the 4 ball test used by Amsoil as meaningless and developed their own. It is still used in a modified form today!
Would it be better perhaps if you started up an Amsoil thread so that the M1 users can participate - and I don't think your $72 is wasted if it gives you pleasure - just enjoy!
Regards
Mark - it is nice to have a light moment or two but this was a genuine question or two about M1 and Amsoil really has nothing to do with the comments. They make their own GF4 lubricants of course that are unsuitable for a 928 and using some of ExxonMobil's vital components
I can say though that in 1941 the German Engineers who were developing some of the Esters etc that make up the modern synthetic oils threw out the 4 ball test used by Amsoil as meaningless and developed their own. It is still used in a modified form today!
Would it be better perhaps if you started up an Amsoil thread so that the M1 users can participate - and I don't think your $72 is wasted if it gives you pleasure - just enjoy!
Regards
11-03-2007, 09:15 AM
#28
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It's no secret the oil companies have been putting lower amounts of zinc into the oil to "save" catalytic converters.
The new SM spec. allows a max . of 08% ZDDP. The older SL was around .1%.
Race engines and older flat tappet engines perform well with .12%-.18% ZDDP.
Seems like the oil companies are just boosting ZDDP in their top of the line oils for older cars and haven't done so in their conventional lines.
Valvoline and Castrol have products with a ZDDP boost, but in very limited viscosity. The Valvoline race (states not for street use) and Castol Syntec 20w-50.
The new AW, like Doug stated, works well, but it appears they haven't been formulated enough for some of the very old flat tappet engines.
11-03-2007, 11:43 AM
#29
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I think that a lot of the fear/paranoia getting passed around in regards to the reduction of ZDDP is because people are assuming that the ZDDP is being removed, and nothing else is being added to take it's place. All people hear is that the ZDDP is being removed and they're convinced that their engines are doomed because of it.
It's hard to ignore cam grinders who claim to see abnormal wear on new cams broken in with oils low in ZDDP. Not that this matters to most in this forum, I'm just curious.
11-03-2007, 01:01 PM
#30
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Doug,
Can you clarify, please? I found this on the M1 site.
Thanks!
Does the Mobil 1 Extended Performance meet GF-4 specifications? How did the new specification impact the development of the high-endurance product line?
Mobil 1 Extended Performance contains an extra performance additive to help deliver exceptional performance and protection. This fully synthetic technology is designed specifically for longer service intervals. Appropriate viscosities of Mobil 1 Extended Performance also meet all the requirements for GF-4. Additionally, they exceed the requirements of API SL/CF and various ACEA (European) specifications. (Updated March 2006)
Edit- Appropriate viscositites meet GF-4... I think I answered my own question.
Can you clarify, please? I found this on the M1 site.
Thanks!
Does the Mobil 1 Extended Performance meet GF-4 specifications? How did the new specification impact the development of the high-endurance product line?
Mobil 1 Extended Performance contains an extra performance additive to help deliver exceptional performance and protection. This fully synthetic technology is designed specifically for longer service intervals. Appropriate viscosities of Mobil 1 Extended Performance also meet all the requirements for GF-4. Additionally, they exceed the requirements of API SL/CF and various ACEA (European) specifications. (Updated March 2006)
Edit- Appropriate viscositites meet GF-4... I think I answered my own question.
Last edited by pmotts; 11-03-2007 at 01:08 PM. Reason: Duh