Ell

Your take on the seat belt law is your personal choice. If you want to kill yourself that is your choice. The difference is that insurance companies don't pay on suicide.

Now you may want to know what they have in common. If you get in an accident and substain injuies or death, the insurance company will pay. This is with or without the seat belt. Now were do they get the money to pay out on these half or full million doller claims? It comes from their full range of accounts, i.e. from everyone that pays insurance.

So you cant sit here and complain about the high insurance rates and then complain that there is a law that requires seat belts. In Kansas people stated that it was their right to wear or not to wear a seat belt. To that I say if it were gods given right to drive, then you would not have to go to the state to get a license to drive. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

Dennis Wilson

Brendan,

Please don't think my response was against the insurance companies. My complaint is the nonenforcement of the insurance laws in Oklahoma. When I am paying for full coverage insurance, yet over 30% of the drivers on the road have no insurance, there is an injustice. I realize that nofault would increase the rates but at least I would be paying for insurance on my vehicle and not relying on the other guy. Considering my unreimbursed losses, it would probably be cheaper in the long run.

Dennis

Randy V

Great analogy Dave (Ketch)!

Ketchmi

I will state first off that I do wear my seatbelt, but I do not think that the government should have any say in my choice in doing so, let alone the right to ticket me for no doing so.

"I have already made my points, and they are well backed by fact in the anual reports of accidents in this country, and who pays, and how much..."

I rest my case. Should you believe whatever you are given............

I know my facts.


(The plural ya'all)

Just who do you think you are talking to?


"But if you are a child, and are not belted because your parents are darwin award next-in-lines, then the law is usefull."

My statement had nothing to do with underage seatbelt laws.

My two sons are attending professional driving classes with me, at my insistance. My oldest son (17) has a 92' BMW325 IS (E36) and is prepping it for racing, as he learns. His first large upgrade was BRAKES! Do you know just how cool a 5 point harness is to a high school crowd?

Should you think that I'm inline for a Darwin Award, lay off the crack dude! Step away from the pipe!

My beef is not against safety, just against the people that profit from fear.

Should you want to match wits, we can take this off-line. I really would not want to bore the rest of these readers with our personal observations. Once again, it is not a personal attack against anyone on this board, their beliefs, or their business's. These are my personal observations which I am entitled to.

You can reach me at ketchmi@hotmail.com or call me at 801-573-2945. I am for real, do not play games, and do not tolerate anyone "without knowledge" slandering me. I will not lower myself to slandering you as I do not know enough facts to base it upon. I do not enjoy that anyway, it is all about a smile with the windows down roaring up a canyon (RMB with no cats!).

Brendan, I do not wish to discount you in any way, that is not my intent. I am simply stating my views on the insurance industry as a whole. Call me a dis-satisfied customer (For 25 years!) if you would like. It is not personal. There is no need to degrade me or anyone with the same beliefs as me. By luck, or skill, I have avoided any accidents to this date.

I have never heard of anyone having a positive encounter easily retrieving their due from an accident involving insurance companies. (involving a 928!)

Should you continue to make this personal, LET'S ROCK. You have no basis upon which to qualify your remarks.

Dave

John Struthers

Not looking to expand on a misnomer...
Decided to review the policies <img src="graemlins/oops.gif" border="0" alt="[oops]" />
When the better half decided to remodel with my 'once hidden stash money' she got rid of my unsightly 4 drawer filing cabinet and replaced it with a space saving, campy, all wood, designer 2 drawer affair.
While I can find pay stubs, elec./water cable/gas bills for the last decade things like insurance polices, auto/home life, medical, dental, tax statements, deeds, power of attorney's, wills' have all gone camping elsewhere. Some of thse are freely replaced others are going to involve attorney's. What started as a simple " where is this stuff" turned into a marriage threatening
"if you don't like the way I'm managing the family records", and "if you would get off your
axx and do something" kinda' response with appropriate but ill timed counter retorts referencing 26 years of a nasty cooking phobia, ect, ad nauseam...........by yours truly.
In short till my requsts for new policy statement I can't truthfully quote my Texas coverages.
Working... Though they did cover the aforementioned 3K plus last spring due to a hit and run under the uninsured clause.
Zack turns 16 next year, and while he can't buy a gun, smokes, or booze, nor can he vote, someone overlooked the fact that if you are old enough to drive in this state you can legally buy and have an automobile titled in your name.
While I doubt he will see any savings in insurance cost's even with a perfect record and Driver Safety Courses every year or so at least the policy writers won't be able to hack him with new driver rates at the age of 21 or 22 when he comes off of our family policy.
Brandon,
While insurance is indeed a hedge, it has developed into a group hedge on the insured with a variety of abusive 'standards'.
Build a million dollar stilt house on the cliffs of Malibu, destroy the vegetation, terraform run-off gully's, and ravines. Whoda' thought about drought, torrential rains and brush fires?
Build a house in Tornado Alley, no biggie. Build a house on a known flood plain, on the Hope Canal, a smoudering coal mine, a fault line.
No worries, we'll pay, emphasis on we.
Insurance Companies today spread the 'LOAD' to all of their account holders and apparently think they have no responsibility to examine available data concerning location, site, geology.
If the developer builds there it must be ok, right?
As to auto/bike insurance, no accidents 20 years, mandatory -every two years- Driver Safety Training and Refresher courses with alleged 10-15%insurance discount. Right, you betcha. With every move in the military my coverage would go ballistic.
Ranger and Dairyland charged less than $100.00 a year for my various and sundry 750 -1100cc bikes in El Paso. Move to Maryland same bike liability $475.00/six month which made the $1200/year full coverage seem like a deal. We won't talk about the 350 c.i. Camaro. When we was talking to an Allstate Rep (remember when they had booths at Sears & Roebucks?) I actually pulled the jerk over the counter by his cheap suit lapels when he told my wife if she was "stupid enough to own a hot-rod gas guzzler she was just going to have to pay the going rate" - to be determined by the insurance company- forget the paid off state regulators, if you have them. When we would return from an overseas tour we were treated like 16 year olds with key's to a Viper. No insurance company would recognize European or Asian insurance providers. And while every insurance provider will gladly provide you your driving history clean back to drivers ed comments at Podunk High School they "have no way to verify that you had ever paid an insurance premium to their company let alone a competitor. Bring reciepts from yesteryear you say? Doesn't matter; if the 'can't verify rule' doesn't apply you get hit with " we only keep closed account records for two years". "Obviously, this mound of insurance reciepts is a clever forgery job on your part sir, now fork over the cash.
As to uninsured drivers wait for next post, you'll think I'm a bleeding heart liberal.

I do hope you guy's have no further misfortunes concerning your newer model sHARk.
Owning a 928 is likie having a small child again...worry, worry.
Been there...
John S. and Pattycakes the wonder Weissach


<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

BC

Ketchmi:
"You can reach me at ketchmi@hotmail.com or call me at 801-573-2945. I am for real, do not play games, and do not tolerate anyone "without knowledge" slandering me. I will not lower myself to slandering you as I do not know enough facts to base it upon. I do not enjoy that anyway, it is all about a smile with the windows down roaring up a canyon (RMB with no cats!)."

....Slandering you? PLease re-read:
Brendan Wrote:
"I am not saying YOU are ignorant - I am saying that your thought process regarding what you mentioned above reeks of ignorANCE. Big difference. Maybe I should restate. You sound very, very, mis-informed. Being mis-informed does not reflect on you. (unless one doesn't listen when they are told the real scoop - then that IS ignorance)"

So the whole "Let's Rock" thing is totally uncalled for.

Now... I am an insurance agent.
These are Facts in Californa:

1) You can be sued for your actions that cause injury to others, whether or not there was provable negligence
2) You can be sued for more than what you insurance will pay. (i.e., 25/50, etc)
3) Your house, your earnings, your future wages can be used to pay this judgment.

I am sorry if the truth is scary, but these cannot be classed as "scare tactics" as that has a negative connotation.

If you are wearing your seatbelt, then there is no need to get in line for the darwin award. That, as they say on the 996 board, "is physics"

If you wish to send a private email my way on this board, I can provide my office number, and I can provide various pieces of info that will make you truly scared to walk out of your door. This is not to say that we should BE scared.

See, insurance is for the bad days. Nobody wants to think about the bad days, and if they do, they will simply say that it will never happen to them. Fine. But get insurance for it anyway, just in case. Hey, I sell stuff to help you when you are in trouble, when your family is in trouble, or when you die. Nobody needs an agent on a good day. But boy do they want to see my face when the thunder roles in. Nody ever thinks they paid too much for insurance on the day they get thier claim check.

"You have no basis upon which to qualify your remarks."

But I do Dave. I am a licensed, and insured Agent in California. I do have qualifications to speak like this about insurance and its parameters on our daily activities.


John -
The Insurance companies in this country are in big trouble. They wrote BAD risks, and are suffering. This is a good time for customers that are low risk, and low claims, as they have a great market in which to find insurance. I only write people that havn't had or don't have many claims. Plain and simple.

It seems lik eyou have had some terrible experiences with this industry, as have many. Well, there are good companies out there thaat do have well-trained agents ready to give you good advice, and good ideas as to your insurance plan.

FOr future reference, look into an insurance company BEFORE you buy. You are not just buying a product. You ar ebuying a relationship with your agent, you are buying a long term commitment. Do research on places like <a href="http://www.ambest.com" target="_blank">www.ambest.com</a>
and <a href="http://www.standardandpoors.com" target="_blank">www.standardandpoors.com</a>

Hell, how about epinion.com

Anyway, I will close this down now. I think that I hit a few nerves here with my insurance experience and facts, and many of you have had some BAD agents and companies. We are not all like that, and unfortunatly, even if you think you don't need insurance, you do. Plain and simple. Blame it on Tort, and blame it on the fact that lawyers can sometimes get 1/3rd of your settlement when you sue. PLease do not blame the insurance companies.

Ell

<img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />
An example of how happy people are to sue and get some money:

I took guy next door with his family out on my boat tubing. He placed his arm through a strap that he knew not to and ended up breaking his arm. He had pins placed in it and it healed fine.

Evan though he played sick and stayed on DB for 6 months from working. He was out riding his quad runner two weeks after having the pins placed. He cut the grass and evan shoveled snow.

All of this I had video tape of and used in my defence aginst his law suit. My insurance covered $100,000, and he was going for 125,000. Pain and suffering and lose of wages from three jobs and not being able to fly to the moon. He ended up getting $40,000.

Because of the courts allowing these frivlous law suits and awarding payout that are out making their fellow lawers rich, we suffer with higher insurance payments. But hold on, after September 11, 2001, the insurance companies are going to have to get all of that money back. Who will pay that bill, HUMMMMMM maybe all of us.

Now until you have been sued and had to witness the fraud and corruption you can only be upset at the high rates you pay for insurance. Once you have had the time in court, you will never be able to write a check to pay your insurance bill again with not having to get up and cool down.

I do not agree with the high rates but it is only due to our liberal court system. Do you think I could spill a Mc Shake on my lap and say that it permanently numbed my body because it was to cold. I see a 5 million dollar law suit

And not to get back on the subject, what was the out come of this Shark and the Sunfire? Does any one know what I am talking about.

<img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />

John Struthers

I suspect that the the sHARk vs Sunfire bang up is far from being resolved.
By far, I mean even two or three weeks with a downed sHARk while learning how to to become a fledgeling 928 wrench is bad enough. But, when you have to wait for the insurance claim to be processed and sort out how much you will have to set aside -out of pocket-, and possible hidden damage that the Insurance Provider will have to inspect and approve payment on 'IF' it can be proved to be related to "THIS" accident.
I recall driving past the autobody shop sometimes twice a day like a lovesick teenager cruising past the girl of his dreams house.
The rear valance/bumpercover alone - should you need one is around $1000.00, $26.00 for a license plate cover, clips, light assemblies, seals, trim... it adds up. Until you get the bumpercover off you can only do a partial inspection of the bumper shock/struts and mount points. No joke, the similarity between owning a fine car and being the doting parent of a small child(at least to me) is haunting at the extreme.
Brendan,
Not our fault that the insurance industry made some bad businees choices. I've been listening for 20 plus years that the industry had diversified. The stock market dumps on me and its my problem, right?
The industry bets that there 'won't be'but 'X' number of floods, tornadoes, hurricanes in a given year. They further hedge by the fine print disclaimers and countrywide we are all connected to the overall cashflow on a given insurance company. I could be located in the original GARDEN OF EDEN and I would still be hammered come premium time for other peoples situations.
Deregulation and No-Fault never did provide relief to the vast majority of the insured.
And I'll challenge anyone on amount and statistics as I have been watching this issue since the early 70's when Pennsylvania went No-Fault. I also kept tabs when Ma Bell was busted up in the late 70's -to save the consumer money?-
that was a 33.33% basic phone bill hike over night. And don't let me get started on energy de-regulation....
What I am getting at here is the insurance industry, ALL OF IT, is a business and cannot operate at a loss for long. But, that same industry could not beat Tort Law - money to be made - and had problems passing on the cost of doing businees to the customers because of state regulation/regulatory commissions.
The industry went to 'CHERRY PICKING" to reduce the bleeding. Many re-wrote policy and/or started enforcing the non-coverage clauses with a vengance as well.
Then under the guise of being more beneficial to the consumer(sic) lobbied for de-regulation state by state. The Industry spent a LOT OF MONEY for deregulation. I wonder why?
De-Regulation across the board was done at the beheist of the Industry and if anyone benefited it certainly has not been the insured.
Farmer Ins.Co. is in the process of leaving the Home Ins. business in Texas over its representation of cost and extent of liability over the Black Mold issue.
When the state stonewalled them they announced the impending shut down to the state, consumers, and customers alike. When the Black Mold issue arose about four years ago I started watching the news/websites/state health agencies and, of course the industry info web sites.
Apparently, a number of concerned people were doing so as well, and collectively, we called BS on the industry as the monthly expenditure numbers, and the relatively, stable number of claims simply did not support the rate hikes AND new exclusionary clauses to the base policies.
They were my insurer for years, the rep was friendly -though mostly unreachable- ,we did business that provided my family with good coverage at if not reasonable cost, fairly competetive. For trying the Black Mold card I said good riddance! Business is business, gouging is BS. I do follow your advice though. And I pledge to read and compare policy in the future.
I also promise to vote with my checkbook.
John S. Founder of;
They Can't Be All Bad, They Own A 928 Society

BC

All very good points John. The Texas situation with Farmers and is very close to happening in other states as well.

Cameron

Update

I received the $500 from the Sunfire Lady on Friday (she got the money from her father). This covers my out of pocket expenses (my colision deductible). I don't know if my insurance co will go after her, or her mother (the registered owner of the uninsured vehicle) in order to recoup their costs to repair my car.

The current repair estimate on the shark is $6500. I expect it to go up by $1k-$2k. The good news is that the car has been checked and is completely straight. Repairs will take 2-3 weeks.

I asked the Sunfire Lady about the Sunfire. She said that she doesn't know much about cars, but that they are going to try to fix it. I don't know who the 'they' is.

By the way, I enjoyed the discussion on insurance. I learned a few things from all points of view. For the record, I am glad that I have it.

jimpriebe

Just a note on fixing a 928 bumper, the auto body shop I used to fix my rear ender used heat to pop out the dents in the cover when they reinstalled the cover the gap between the rear hatch and the cover was quite a bit larger than before the accident so after allot of bitching the insurance co finally replaced my 90 with a 95 rear end not bad but a glaring fault to a knowledgeable shark owner