Alan

I think Bill is referring to perhaps a different issue to yours... his seems to be a quite momentary issue. I could certainly see that the same coupling could and probably would come from the key switching the same line... though there may be differences.

The actual reason for movement has to be explained though... not sure what you were proposing caused that - sounded like you mean the pulse is just long enough to trigger the close mode... to me thats over a second... Bill & Roger sound like they are talking about an immediate sudden movement...?

My car does not do this - but I'd try the capacitor on the inputs _ Bill I see a quick trip to Frys...!

Alan

Ed Scherer

Where do you get the "over a second"? I'm not sure about that. I think the delay might be quite short (probably under 0.8 s), in which case the difference between that delay and the lock pulse width is exactly the amount of time that a window will start closing.

Alan

Ed mine takes about 1 second or more - but I have a different lock module than yours & Bills...

In any case I guess we need to hear from Bill - is this ~0.8 seconds after the locking or immediately as you lock?

BTW my commando unlock pulse is about 0.3 seconds, initially my lock was set to be the same with no issues like this. Now my lock output is configured to last the duration of the transmission for the auto close mode.

Alan

Bill Ball

I don't know the answer to the questions yet, but the Commando lock action is clearly different from when I use the key.

AO

I *think the issues is that when you use the key, you can just lock the doors without hitting the "roll up the windows" switch. But with the keyless, this is not an option.

If you have both the passenger and driver wondow partially down, does the driver window come up? It shouldn't IIRC. The sequence for the window roll up is Passenger, sunroof, driver.

*dangerous for me as of late

Alan

Andrew - no you can't.... the lock wire does both functions purely based on how long its active. On auto-close sequence - correct.

Bill - is the movement instantaneous with the lock or after a delay?

Alan

Ed Scherer

Before I left for work this morning (in another vehicle ), I played around with this some more.

Bill, I'd suggest a little experiment:

• Enter vehicle. Ignition on. Roll down both windows about halfway. Ignition off. Leave vehicle, close door.
• (Pay close attention to sounds and motion here, with respect to time) With key in driver's side lock, turn key clockwise to "lock" position and hold it there. What happens?

For my '90 S4, as soon as the key hits the "lock" position, the doors lock. Then, after about half a second, the passenger side window starts rolling up.

Once the passenger side window starts rolling, if I move the key off the "lock" position (back to the center position where the key can be removed from the cylinder), the passenger side window stops rolling.

Now note that if you do this procedure with the key in the lock position for the same period of time as the lock pulse width from the keyless entry system, you're replicating what the keyless entry system does.

So... for me (with my 0.8 s pulse width on the Omega REC-8), if I do the "key to the lock position" routine for about 0.8 s (through the wonderfully precise saying "a thousand o-" technique!), I can reproduce exactly the behavior I get from the Omega REC-8. The passenger side window rolls up about half an inch over perhaps a quarter of a second.

So, my claim is that the "window/sunroof close routine" commences approximately 0.5 s after the "lock" signal is received from a lock cylinder switch and will continue as long as that signal is present. Since our keyless entry systems are providing that signal for longer than 0.5 s, the window will roll for the time period (KESPulseWidth - WindowAndSunroofCloseDelay).

With my system, if I leave the windows rolled down, I can walk the passenger side window up about half an inch at a time by repeatedly hitting the lock button on the remote. It sounds like this (with relative time estimates), as you'd expect based on the explanation above:

• (0 s) press lock button on remote
• (+0 s) "click" as door locks lock (again, even though they were already locked)
• (+0.5 s) "whirrrrrrrr" as passenger side window rolls up a bit
• (+0.8 s) (silence) as passenger side window stops rolling
• (+5 s) "I guess Ed was right" from witnesses as they contemplate what they've just experienced

Bill Ball

Alan & Ed:

I'll pay more attention to that today. All I know is, it's annoying. Maybe the key is doing it too, but I just never noticed it or most of the time I had the windows up already or wasn't in the garage. Even with the windows up, I can hear the window motors cycle very briefly. It may be true with the key as well, and I just never noticed it before. I will look at this more later.

NOTE: One other problem I could use some immediate help with: I'm having trouble locating a good access point for the alarm disarm signal from the rear hatch lock. I know which wire it is on the alarm module, but that module is completely hidden behind the glovebox. I started to take the glovebox out, but it seems much more convoluted than on the 89 and earlier. Is removal of the glovebox simpler than it looks to me? I pulled out the cloth screen inside the glovebox that allows me to see behind it, but everything is packed tight with insulation. It appears the box has to come out completely to get to the module. Not as simple as on the GTS where you have that underseat module. Is there another more accessible source for that BR/BL wire that disarms the alarm? I think the harness runs along the passenger side floor and maybe I can find it near the amp beside the passenger seat.

Ed Scherer

Oh yeah, I guess that leaves the question of what to do about this problem, right?

I'd like to play around with this a little. A little add-on circuitry (I'm thinking a simple 555 timer-based edge-triggered monostable circuit) should be able to convert a too-long pulse width from a keyless entry system to a easily adjustable pulse width of less than half a second.

Of course, prototyping this will involve finding my breadboard stuff and old parts that I haven't seen since we moved a year and a half ago.

Ed Scherer

Bill, I've had my glovebox off before (can't remember why; maybe to get to the airbag sensor connector to clean it or something) and I don't remember it being particularly difficult. What are you getting hung up on?

Bill Ball

I can't see obvious removal screws for the door. On 89, there's a lower hinge. The inner box seems trapped by the dash. I see two screws on the top of the inner box, but then what? I can feel a plastic box behind the insulation, but it seems very tightly packed in there, whereas on the 89, once the box is out, the alarm module is staring in the face.

Ed Scherer

Crap. I wish I could help you more, but this was a couple of years ago and I just don't remember much. And it was one of those rare instances when I didn't take any pictures. And I'm at work and my car is at home, so I can't go look myself.

I'd be happy to take a look this evening if you can't figure it out by then, if you can wait that long.

I did just remember that I also replaced the little air damper cylinder in there a few years ago, too.

Ed Scherer

Just a guess, but maybe the door just detaches once you unclip the semicircular slide/guide thing on the left and allow the door to swing open even wider.

And I just found the thread "Need help with center console removal on '90 S4" (from 4 years ago, no wonder I can't remember the details!) where I mentioned that I took my glove box off. It happens to have a diagram in the first post that shows the glove box. Probably not sufficiently detailed, but it's something.



Also, it's probably not much help, but I did come across a few photos when I was doing that stuff. Click any of these for bigger versions. On a number of them, it's pretty hard to know what you're looking at, but there might be evidence of the location of fasteners on some of these.

Ed Scherer

Hey, didn't you say you were working on a '90? And doesn't one of those photos of my '90 S4 I just posted show the alarm module in front of the LH/EZK, highly accessible right under the cover?

Edit: oops, sorry about that; it's obviously hanging there after having been detached from its mounting point. Sorry.

borland

It's piggybacked to the bulb control module, so you don't need to remove the glove box. Just the small corner carpeted piece.

If you search for my post on the bulb control module defeat, you'll find that I describe the procedure for removing that module on my 90' S4.